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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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TigerB Zimmerit kit 6303
Catch-22
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 10, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 10:54 AM UTC
I thought I'd make a note of anything that crops up, to give some constructive feedback to Dragon.

I’m working though parts matching, that'll come later (why can't Dragon do this for you?), but I’ve already got a few early points to share.

1) Main point for me - the 'real' or photo type of diagrams in yellow make the instructions very difficult to see detail.
And this can also confuse which way up some parts should be applied? For example, O6 on the rear turret hatch. O8 if you are not paying attention.

2) I would have thought S2 would replace N12 on the turret?

I can’t see anywhere in the instructions where

3) you fix a handle to the outer-skin of the rear hatch?

4) or where S1 gets attached?

5) How are you supposed to attach the chain to the rear-hatch plug (K29) using pin K30? The pin and the metal chain have no gaps… I decided to cut the pin K30, insert the metal chain, and then re-glue K30.
Where do you attach the other end of the chain? I decided to attach it to the handle of the inner-skin of the rear hatch.








These ones are not important, but

the instructions erroneously detail both fixing the AA-gun mount using new parts from the TJ-sprue (step 17/18), and then the older parts from the O-sprue in step 21.

O25 should be marked as ‘Parts not for use’

--------------------------

Anyone else found anything?
Catch-22
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 10:58 AM UTC
Another small point - the join between the turret front and side doesn't quite match in the zimmerit - something for me to tidy up!

kevinb120
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Joined: May 09, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 12:03 PM UTC
Looks good so far! Welcome to the world of Dragon models, beautiful kits, horrible instructions.... The photo versions are particularly lousy, and misslabled part numbers just add to the fun I'm not sure but I think the chain should be quite a bit shorter. I'm sure someone will know exactly in no time here. And you can stretch it just a wee bit to oval out the links some more. Its gonna be a nice model for sure though.
H_Ackermans
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Gelderland, Netherlands
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 09:20 PM UTC
You follow instructions?

Anyway, the chain on the hatch really doesn't fit to the handle, it is fitted to a U-shaped piece on the hatch interior.

Catch-22
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 10:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

You follow instructions?

Anyway, the chain on the hatch really doesn't fit to the handle, it is fitted to a U-shaped piece on the hatch interior.




odd but true, I do tend to follow instructions...... until they go bad

Are you going to get this kit Herbert?

Dragon don't seem to have put any U-shaped pieces on the hatch interior that could hold a chain. I'll stick to my 'field modification', especially as the hatch will be shut on the finished model.

The chain looks too bulky to me for 1/35th anyway, never mind too long. I'll tie a knot in it!
mark197205
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 01:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

You follow instructions?

Anyway, the chain on the hatch really doesn't fit to the handle, it is fitted to a U-shaped piece on the hatch interior.




odd but true, I do tend to follow instructions...... until they go bad

Are you going to get this kit Herbert?

Dragon don't seem to have put any U-shaped pieces on the hatch interior that could hold a chain. I'll stick to my 'field modification', especially as the hatch will be shut on the finished model.

The chain looks too bulky to me for 1/35th anyway, never mind too long. I'll tie a knot in it!



The chain is far too bulky, I used the small chain from Verlinden on my Ferdinand which is about half the size of the kit supplied stuff but is still a bit overscale, I believe Accurate Armour do even finer chain that would be more in scale.
Deadball
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Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 07:35 AM UTC
A newbie question: I know what Zimmerit was for, but what was it made of?
Catch-22
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 07:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A newbie question: I know what Zimmerit was for, but what was it made of?



sweepings from the factory floor... well almost;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerit

http://www.panzerworld.net/zimmerit.html
Tojo72
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 08:56 AM UTC
I really appreciate you doing this,I just opened the box to start this kit which I plan to do later this week.It will be my first 1/35 kit,and I will be following yoyur progress closely.

thanks
04090
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: September 13, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:09 AM UTC
04090
Hi you are lucky as the one i have k33 is warped and wont fit the hull
yours cyril
tjkelly
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Maryland, United States
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:02 AM UTC
Looking good so far...have this in the stash to bust out as well, another build to keep an eye on. Thanks for running with this one! Cheers!

Tim
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A newbie question: I know what Zimmerit was for, but what was it made of?


Zinc Sulphide, Barium Sulphate, Polyvinyl Acetate (a glue), Sawdust, and Yellow Ochre Pigment, thinned with Benzene.
Catch-22
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:13 AM UTC
I've just been looking at the front of the hull - parts D6 (gunners periscope cover) and D7 (drivers periscope cover) seem to be the wrong way around on the instructions, step 11. When you try fitting them into the locating holes you'll see what I mean.
Oh and I guess Dragon mean O29 is an alternate to D7 (drivers periscope cover), even though O29 is invisible on the instructions.

I also have a small gap under my front-hull MG zimmerit-covered 'dome' (K11). I couldn't see how I could fit it any better.




Quoted Text

04090
Hi you are lucky as the one i have k33 is warped and wont fit the hull
yours cyril



k33 - you mean the upper hull? Contact Dragon, I'm sure they'll replace it. I told them my kit of the Smart Stug3 was missing the lower hull completely - about 5 weeks later one arrived in the post from China.
Catch-22
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:47 AM UTC
I wasn't happy with that 'gap', so I cut it out, re-shaped the hull and re-glued the 'dome'.

Watch out for this one.

Catch-22
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 10:31 PM UTC
I've gone back to step 1 in the instructions, so I'm now doing the suspension and 'wheels'.

Now I'm back onto the A, B and G-sprues (IIRC), what a difference. They clearly have not updated these in a long time. Detail not quite so crisp, attachment points to the sprues not so well thought out.

1) cleaning up the suspension arms is a long and difficult process. At both points where they are attached to the sprue, there is a 'step' in the suspension arm itself. Therefore you have to cut, cut into the arm, then cut at 90 degrees along the arm into the first cut you made. With 9 arms each side, that's 36 very awkward bits of work.




2) the locating pins for the suspension arms fixing to the lower hull are erm very adjustable.
Teaching grandma to suck eggs, my top tip is prepare 9 arms (as in the long process in 1) above) and then glue them all at the same time. This allows you to get the suspension travel level if required.
Catch-22
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 06:12 AM UTC
Step 1 - parts D1 and D2 need some sanding.

Before


After

blaster76
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 07:18 AM UTC
Nice looking kit. I got a chance to open one up last week at my LHS. Seems to me that with all that is offerd, it would be a great OOB. Personally, I think the molded zimmerrit is a bit too deep, but the kit is certainly cheaper than a buying a non -zimmerit kit and then buying the cavalier set of zimmerit to use on it.. Like the way you are doing tis build thread. It'll make a great reference to all who come after.
Catch-22
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 09:12 AM UTC
Thanks Steve - appreciated.

I agree on the Zimmerit thickness; I'm sure that's why the MG dome doesn't fit without trimming

Also with the lower front plate being added to the existing (pre-zimmerit) kit, does this not actually mess up the dimensions of the whole tank?



you slide the plate in thus...


Don't get me wrong, it is a fabulous kit... but when someone does a Zimmerit 1/35 from scratch (rather than using existing non-Zimmerit tooling) I think the result will be well worth the extra effort.
H_Ackermans
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 09:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Steve - appreciated.

I agree on the Zimmerit thickness; I'm sure that's why the MG dome doesn't fit without trimming

Also with the lower front plate being added to the existing (pre-zimmerit) kit, does this not actually mess up the dimensions of the whole tank?



you slide the plate in thus...


Don't get me wrong, it is a fabulous kit... but when someone does a Zimmerit 1/35 from scratch (rather than using existing non-Zimmerit tooling) I think the result will be well worth the extra effort.



As long as it all fits inside the "older" final drive parts at the front of the hull, I wouldn't worry about dimensions. The hull onto which the Zimmerit is glued is smaller, thusly, the completed model will be dimensionally accurate.
Catch-22
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 09:55 AM UTC
Ah so the lower hull is 'new'?

So why didn't they make it with Zimmerit on the front plate?

I guess as they only needed it on that small area, they save on costs by adding that bit onto the blue K-sprue - OK
marcb
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Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 12:25 AM UTC
I wouldn't worry about the zimm not matching on the front and side turret plates. I doubt they did when aplying the pattern at the factory...
The Kugelblende is tricky. The zimm pattern on the upper hull front plate seems to go underneath the Kugelblende, that is strange...
Nice build blog, thanks for posting.
Catch-22
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Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 05:39 AM UTC
I've fixed the upper and lower hulls together. They are well made, and fitted well, though the upper hull wanted to 'rise up' in the centre section, so I used the old 3-can trick and left it overnight.



then in the morning I glued the lower-front plate and then slid the lower-front zimmerit 'plate' in. The front-centre point where the two sloping surfaces meet was 'gaping' slightly, so an elastic band kept this together whilst the glue dried.

Catch-22
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Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 06:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I wouldn't worry about the zimm not matching on the front and side turret plates. I doubt they did when aplying the pattern at the factory...



I'm being picky - I'm using this famous photo as my guide



Quoted Text


The Kugelblende is tricky. The zimm pattern on the upper hull front plate seems to go underneath the Kugelblende, that is strange...


yes - I expected a small circular effect in the zimmerit, but on the model it is just uninterrupted straight 'lines'.

As I said on the thread when this kit was announced, the zimmerit is excellent, but in some areas the pattern is too regimented... turret side/rear corners is the one that stands out for me, and yet DML have done a different pattern on the turret FRONT plate, which looks superb, just like the photo above.

cach7
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Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 04:26 PM UTC
Anybody know when the Porsche version is due out? And will it have pe and metal barrel?
Catch-22
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Posted: Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 06:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Anybody know when the Porsche version is due out? And will it have pe and metal barrel?



It's out.

Yes, and yes.

IIRC it's DML kit 6302
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