Inspired By the recent conflict between Russia and Georgia, Does anyone know who makes a decent T-90
Or what is the best T-72 Kit out there?
Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Jacques Duquette
T72 or T90?
9thSSReenactor
New Jersey, United States
Joined: July 04, 2008
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Joined: July 04, 2008
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 04:30 PM UTC
Reiter960
California, United States
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 07:22 PM UTC
First of all, there are no T-90 equipped units of Russian Army currently deployed in Ossetia. 58th Army's heavy armor is almost exclusively composed of T-72B "Super Dolly Parton" and few T-72B mod. 1989 (more commonly known as T-72BM). Georgian Army uses USSR legacy T-72Bs Super Dolly Parton (in far fewer number compared to RuA), T-72A and AV. Since there have been influx of military hardware from former Warsaw Pact nations into Georgia in past few years I would assume there maybe limited number of T-72Ms used as well.Since I don't recall any hard evidence on that, you might want check it yourself.
However, I find it very difficult to model Georgian tank after what they've been doing in Southern outskirts of S. Ossetia's capital in past 48 hours. There. I just had to say it!
On to the kits and AM:
Your best, and pretty much only bet, is to get Tamiya T-72M. This is the most accurate T-72 model currently on the market. It is, though, a model depicting license built T-72 by either Poland or late Czechoslovak one. It has accurate hull and running gear, but turret is not so good overall. Having said that it is modeled after license built tank and not a soviet one, you can't basically build OOB as either Russia or Georgia used vehicle (unless of course, you can find proof of Ms or M1s being actually used). On the positive side, there are aftermarket sets available from Miniarm, necessary to convert base kit into either model B or B(M); down side is obvious-they are pricey. Also, I doubt you can find any T-72AV conversions today, unless you are willing to re-do kit's turret and use Kontakt-3 ERA, Modelpoint sets are too old and inaccurate, from Miniarm's T-72B sets.
I hope that helped
However, I find it very difficult to model Georgian tank after what they've been doing in Southern outskirts of S. Ossetia's capital in past 48 hours. There. I just had to say it!
On to the kits and AM:
Your best, and pretty much only bet, is to get Tamiya T-72M. This is the most accurate T-72 model currently on the market. It is, though, a model depicting license built T-72 by either Poland or late Czechoslovak one. It has accurate hull and running gear, but turret is not so good overall. Having said that it is modeled after license built tank and not a soviet one, you can't basically build OOB as either Russia or Georgia used vehicle (unless of course, you can find proof of Ms or M1s being actually used). On the positive side, there are aftermarket sets available from Miniarm, necessary to convert base kit into either model B or B(M); down side is obvious-they are pricey. Also, I doubt you can find any T-72AV conversions today, unless you are willing to re-do kit's turret and use Kontakt-3 ERA, Modelpoint sets are too old and inaccurate, from Miniarm's T-72B sets.
I hope that helped
woodstock74
North Carolina, United States
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 01:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
However, I find it very difficult to model Georgian tank after what they've been doing in Southern outskirts of S. Ossetia's capital in past 48 hours. There. I just had to say it!
I'm hesitant to ask, but frankly there seems little evidence the Georgians are the perpetrators of what they are accused, especially with Russian forces now moving into Abkhasia on the opposite side of the country. Seems Russia's ulterior motives are all what this is about.
PantherF
Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 03:13 AM UTC
I too liked the look of the T-72B and after finding out what they were I picked one up from ebay made by REVELL. The other choice was ZVEZDA. Don't know how accurate they are, just wanted one that looked the part with the ERA or EDZ added to the exterior surfaces of the hull and turret.
Plenty of pictures floating around to model after. I figured since I like Russian armor I couldn't go wrong with this purchase and the price was right!
Plenty of pictures floating around to model after. I figured since I like Russian armor I couldn't go wrong with this purchase and the price was right!
todorovicandreas
Austria
Joined: May 01, 2007
KitMaker: 608 posts
Armorama: 593 posts
Joined: May 01, 2007
KitMaker: 608 posts
Armorama: 593 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 06:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
However, I find it very difficult to model Georgian tank after what they've been doing in Southern outskirts of S. Ossetia's capital in past 48 hours. There. I just had to say it!
I'm hesitant to ask, but frankly there seems little evidence the Georgians are the perpetrators of what they are accused, especially with Russian forces now moving into Abkhasia on the opposite side of the country. Seems Russia's ulterior motives are all what this is about.
Well, I dont think that this is the right forum to start political discussions, but didnīt the Georgians move first into Ossetia? Killing peacekeepers, from russia as well?
Anyway, we will have a lot of reference material for the future. I even spotted in a video a russian (or Ossetian?) T-62 with slat armor.
Regarding the T-72 and T-90 kits/aftermarket: George already answered the question perfectly.
Best regards,
Andreas
Jacques
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 07:46 AM UTC
Best to do this when making civil and short comments on the events. It helps us to keep things seperated! That said, I would reserve judgement on any of it until things settle down a bit...accusations and inflated casualty figures are already fairly out of hand.
That said, there is some interesting commentary on Tank Net about the T-72's that Georgia has...some of them are reputed to be better than Russian tanks...T-72AM I believe wasw teh moniker...you can notice them as they have ERA bricks over the spot that used to hold the IR light on the turret front. Anyhow, there have been singular examples seen in this conflict from both sides of T-72BM (if you will allow the transgression...T-72B with K-5 ERA). THAT would make for a interesting engagement.
Revell/Zvezda/Italeri/DML T-72 kits are ALL the same kit in different boxes.
That said, there is some interesting commentary on Tank Net about the T-72's that Georgia has...some of them are reputed to be better than Russian tanks...T-72AM I believe wasw teh moniker...you can notice them as they have ERA bricks over the spot that used to hold the IR light on the turret front. Anyhow, there have been singular examples seen in this conflict from both sides of T-72BM (if you will allow the transgression...T-72B with K-5 ERA). THAT would make for a interesting engagement.
Revell/Zvezda/Italeri/DML T-72 kits are ALL the same kit in different boxes.
mat
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
Armorama: 643 posts
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
Armorama: 643 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 09:21 AM UTC
I am following this war on the news, and I have noticed a lot of footage with T-72's with the turret upside down. It is interesting to see what a T-72 versus a T-72 can do......
Although it is my favourite tank of all times, I really doubt the effectiveness of all that ERA on the hull. And maybe they should store their rounds somewhere else too
Although it is my favourite tank of all times, I really doubt the effectiveness of all that ERA on the hull. And maybe they should store their rounds somewhere else too
panamadan
Minnesota, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 09:45 AM UTC
ERA is only effective against HEAT rounds-APFSDS rounds will just blow right thru them... Dan
PantherF
Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 09:57 AM UTC
Reiter960
California, United States
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 12:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
ERA is only effective against HEAT rounds-APFSDS rounds will just blow right thru them... Dan
It's absolutely true for first generation ERA like Blazer or K-1/3, but not K-5 or Ukrainian Nozh.
Quoted Text
I am following this war on the news, and I have noticed a lot of footage with T-72's with the turret upside down. It is interesting to see what a T-72 versus a T-72 can do......
Although it is my favourite tank of all times, I really doubt the effectiveness of all that ERA on the hull. And maybe they should store their rounds somewhere else too
More like T-72 vs PG-7VL and AT-5. Internal explosion is just bound to happen if grenade hits T-72's rear section of turret, where there is no ERA installed, or hull side with ERA already stripped by previous hit/obstacle. Actually, munitions detonation is the Achilles heel of all soviet MBTs designed after T-64. Object 640 would be exception, but it's gutted for good now.
9thSSReenactor
New Jersey, United States
Joined: July 04, 2008
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Joined: July 04, 2008
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 02:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
First of all, there are no T-90 equipped units of Russian Army currently deployed in Ossetia. 58th Army's heavy armor is almost exclusively composed of T-72B "Super Dolly Parton" and few T-72B mod. 1989 (more commonly known as T-72BM). Georgian Army uses USSR legacy T-72Bs Super Dolly Parton (in far fewer number compared to RuA), T-72A and AV. Since there have been influx of military hardware from former Warsaw Pact nations into Georgia in past few years I would assume there maybe limited number of T-72Ms used as well.Since I don't recall any hard evidence on that, you might want check it yourself.
However, I find it very difficult to model Georgian tank after what they've been doing in Southern outskirts of S. Ossetia's capital in past 48 hours. There. I just had to say it!
On to the kits and AM:
Your best, and pretty much only bet, is to get Tamiya T-72M. This is the most accurate T-72 model currently on the market. It is, though, a model depicting license built T-72 by either Poland or late Czechoslovak one. It has accurate hull and running gear, but turret is not so good overall. Having said that it is modeled after license built tank and not a soviet one, you can't basically build OOB as either Russia or Georgia used vehicle (unless of course, you can find proof of Ms or M1s being actually used). On the positive side, there are aftermarket sets available from Miniarm, necessary to convert base kit into either model B or B(M); down side is obvious-they are pricey. Also, I doubt you can find any T-72AV conversions today, unless you are willing to re-do kit's turret and use Kontakt-3 ERA, Modelpoint sets are too old and inaccurate, from Miniarm's T-72B sets.
I hope that helped
Thanks, I am making a Russian Tank, Ill try the Tamiya set, but does it come with the ERA for it,, and how are the ZVEZDA sets?
, Once again, Thanks to everybody
Reiter960
California, United States
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 02:44 PM UTC
Tamiya kit has no ERA.
Quoted Text
The Revell, Zvezda, and Italeri are all just copies of the DML. They are all the same junk.
chuckster
Missouri, United States
Joined: May 30, 2003
KitMaker: 289 posts
Armorama: 170 posts
Joined: May 30, 2003
KitMaker: 289 posts
Armorama: 170 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 02:51 PM UTC
If 1/72 scale is your thing, Ace makes a descent T-72 with reactive armor model. Check the link.
http://www.acemodel.com.ua/?p=model&id=106&s=&l=en
http://www.acemodel.com.ua/?p=model&id=106&s=&l=en
mat
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
Armorama: 643 posts
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
Armorama: 643 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 08:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Guess you missed Desert Storm and OIF. That's what happens to a T72 when it's hit. It's a bad design having all your ammo in an unprotected set up like that. They are just a Roman candel waiting to happen.
No, I know desert storm and the many knocked out T-72's, that is why I posted this. The fact that they always turn up like that is not so much because of the superiority of the opponents tanks (which are superior anyway I think), but it is proof of the bad design of the T-72 itself (but I still love them anyway)
PantherF
Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Monday, August 11, 2008 - 01:32 AM UTC
That's why I got the Revell (AKA junk) version because I wanted the ERA. Like I said earlier, I wasn't looking for accuracy I just wanted one that looked the part.
Thanks for the opinion.
Thanks for the opinion.