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Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
NEWS
Build-A-Rama - Smoke Product
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 01:44 AM UTC
Build-A-Rama is offering a new series of smoke products.
For the majority of our builders here we''ll have to add our own touches and detail. If you are shying away from smoke this may be the base or starting point for including it in a project.
If the cotton ball versions aren''t getting it done for you and you want to experiment with something else, here is another option.

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
Desmoquattro
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New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: September 10, 2008
KitMaker: 235 posts
Armorama: 168 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 10:54 AM UTC
I dunno, looks a bit overdone. More like a wargame piece than something I'd put in a serious dio. Large billows of smoke like that just look like something out of a cartoon. The only way I'd use something like that would be to represent a flamethrower. Didn't someone post pictures of a Sherman flamethrower build that had a similar flame effect? In that type of case the thick billows would look realistic.
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:31 AM UTC
Can't argue much with that point of view. Some of thier products could stand a bit of TLC and would fit in a non-war gaming scratch built diorama.
With all the discussion around how to make smoke I thought this was worth mentioning.
Maybe add a touch of your own TLC and you may have something.
If it gets someone into a diorama with smoke and they reduce thier stash and increase thier 'finished projects' list then its a winner.
dbudd
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: March 23, 2006
KitMaker: 229 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 12:36 PM UTC
I have to concur that isn't something I would use, there seems to be an abundance of sub par aftermarket products coming out. It shows the value of sites like this one where you can see the product and read comments before buying. I have a bunch of stuff (not including the things I've thrown out or used for testing/experimentation) that I bought thinking it was something good and it turned out to be bad.
thomokiwi
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined: January 11, 2006
KitMaker: 438 posts
Armorama: 359 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 01:26 PM UTC
I can't argue with the above comments. This one is not for me.
bbailey_33
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 10, 2005
KitMaker: 108 posts
Armorama: 56 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 01:51 AM UTC
when this stuff gets cheap enough, problem solved
http://www.unitednuclear.com/aerogel.htm
calvin2000
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Colorado, United States
Joined: July 25, 2007
KitMaker: 886 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 02:01 AM UTC
That is cool stuff. Aerogel. I would love to have some to play with.
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 02:13 AM UTC
Now that's some interesting stuff.
I see some foggy water applications with that stuff too.
parrot
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 1,607 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 10:18 AM UTC
Does't seem to work for me.
Too solid looking.
jba
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Rhone, France
Joined: November 04, 2005
KitMaker: 1,845 posts
Armorama: 777 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 08:44 PM UTC
"You can't model the fire,
you can't model the smoke,
you can't model the smell."
WarWheels
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Illinois, United States
Joined: March 24, 2006
KitMaker: 1,816 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 02:48 AM UTC
So, is this build-o-rama stuff a foam, resin or ? I can't quite tell from the photos.
dbudd
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: March 23, 2006
KitMaker: 229 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 03:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

"You can't model the fire,
you can't model the smoke,
you can't model the smell."



I concur you have to know the limits of the medium. I saw a diorama with a panther that was very well done. However, he modeled flames coming out of the rear deck intakes that just looked awful. ruined the whole thing.
lespauljames
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 06, 2007
KitMaker: 3,661 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 03:23 AM UTC
sorry guys, i must say i have seen a fairly good looking model with smoke,

see for yourself,
Defeat Of France
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 03:37 AM UTC
The B-A-Rama pieces are a precast resin piece.

Jimmy, I've seen that diorama - very nice. That's not modeling smoke, that's "Making" smoke (just ribbin'ya )
CReading
#001
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California, United States
Joined: February 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,726 posts
Armorama: 892 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 03:47 AM UTC
The Monroe Perdu Diorama is smoke made with a smoke generator. The problem with this type of smoke depicting a burning object is that:
a) it's white and thus doesn't look like anything 'burning'
b) it 'drifts' like fog and settles unless moved by a "wind" source

That aside, I've seen this diorama in person and it is really cool.
Cheers,
Charles
jba
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Rhone, France
Joined: November 04, 2005
KitMaker: 1,845 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 03:59 AM UTC
Jimmy that diorama is pretty good (the helmets thing is the standout idea), but the idea of getting some cigarette smoke or whatever while taking the picture dates at least from Paine's "How to build dioramas" back then in the mid-eighties.
that's not some stuff you can expose you see, the diorama is a static unmoving and permanent work while this kind of smoke moves of course. So that's a trick, and a good one it is too, but I think it's a bit "of topic" in model making you see..
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 08:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

sorry guys, i must say i have seen a fairly good looking model with smoke,

see for yourself,
Defeat Of France



Jimmy--that is outstanding work...really impressive.
DJ
endrju007
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Wojewodztwo Podkarpackie, Poland
Joined: December 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,435 posts
Armorama: 1,256 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 08:40 PM UTC
I've seen some animation made with few still-photo cameras placed around smoke, you know, when few cameras placed around of something moving make pictures in the same time and then these pictures are assembled into a animation (you know - "matrix-like" ). Although it was authentic smoke shown on this animation it looked VERY unnatural - it simply was not mooving... I do agree with Jean-Bernard that these things are not possible to be animated to look real just because they are always in movement and movement is their nature.
But it sure is worth trying . HERE is very good try by Paul Fernandez:


Andrzej
Jeffry83
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: December 19, 2007
KitMaker: 235 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2008 - 03:55 PM UTC
I think this only looks good on wargame tables...
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,012 posts
Armorama: 1,949 posts
Posted: Friday, September 19, 2008 - 05:39 PM UTC
IMO, this Build-A-Rama stuff looks like dirty cotton balls.
Sorry but it's just not very convincing looking smoke.
Cheers

jjumbo
rotATOR
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California, United States
Joined: November 16, 2006
KitMaker: 223 posts
Armorama: 167 posts
Posted: Monday, September 22, 2008 - 06:12 AM UTC
This isnt a very good product IMO...and thats the bummer behind dio construction---trying to duplicate the kinetics of ,say terrestrial explosions or fire/smoke, with a realistic effect. An explosion is composed of millions of individual particles moving very fast,so its very difficult if not impossible to re-create in three dimensions. There are a few exceptions,like water splashes and waves,that can be extremely convincing but even then there is the impossibility of re-creating completely individual droplets of water within the effect.
beachbum
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Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 1,735 posts
Armorama: 586 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 02:07 PM UTC
Adding my 2 cts to the pile I suppose modelling smoke will eventually be like having raindrops in a dio setting. Creating an illusion of movement in what is essentially static. In raindrops one could probably create the impact of the raindrop on a puddle of water but never truly be able to show the rain drops in mid air and in some ways unless a material that is translucent but yet reflect light at different angles giving the illusion of movement, it would be very, very difficult for any smoke product it to be truly realistic when viewed by the human eyeball. It wouldn't be too bad in a photo especially if painted well but it would look to solid up close and personal.

Having said that I guess the smoke product by Build-a-rama may not be too bad for wargamming though.
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