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Carried away by Rwanda carriers!
Heatseeker64
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 07:57 PM UTC
I have long been associated with Aussie armoured vehicles - back in 1986 as a young journalist I headed out on my first military exercise and rode around on M113A1s.

By 1993 I was in Somalia, and in 1994 I was in Rwanda ... there are many stories I could tell from that little trip, but one of my more useful achievements was to photograph the Australian APC section in Kigali.

The vehicles were historic in that they were the first Australian armoured vehicles to wear the UN white livery:









My association with The Dark Continent endured and continues - looks like I'm heading back to film a doco early next year, but for a long time I just wanted to forget about Rwanda.

In the meantime I started accumulating M113s and bits for Aussie variants - would you believe I started back in 1990, and I am yet to build an Aussie carrier in any form!

I suppose part of the problem was and is the lack of a decent base kit, and the various Aussie updates varied from acceptable to awful.

I haven't run a micrometer over either, but the Tamiya and Academy M113s seem to capture the boxy dimensions of the vehicle well, and just about all parts are interchangeable. I bought one Italeri M113, and I doubt if it will ever be built, or even plundered for parts.

Moving right along, a few of you may have noticed that I reviewed a few Aussie armour bits recently - the Mousehouse fuel cells among them. Well, something stirred in me when I glued the cells in to a couple of hulls to see if they fitted - I then started hunting up some reference pix, and sorting through all those upgrades I had accumulated over the decades.

Before I knew it a couple of rudimentary interiors were in place, and I finally had m113 hulls sitting on wheels!

I suppose you could say it's therapy mixed mith sheer laziness, but I reckon the best way to break this carrier conundrum is to build a couple of the Rwanda vehicles - they operated from a base, were in clean and intact condition, and the white paint job should present few challenges.

I have resolved to do the M113A1 fitter and the T50 turreted hull 134192, which later went on to serve in East Timor and is now in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra.

The Academy fitter I aquired back in 1995 turned out not to be a bad kit. The crane needed to be shifted back a few mm to allow the driver's hatch to open, I fitted the Tamiya engine deck and chopped some of the Israeli items to represent Aussie boxes.







The Australian plastic water jerries, cargo hatch filter cover, cargo hatch bump stops and mesh covered indicator lights came from a venture named Armour Bits, which I'm not sure exists today, the aerials and the rear jerry mounts are Accurate Armour. I bent up a bit of brass as the mount for a vice from an ancient Tamiya accessories kit.

I only fitted a very basic interior because I was unsure of the layout (on the day I photographed the vehicles I was a little shell shocked by events the previous day ... in a sound state on mind I would have asked the crews to drop the ramps - oh well!). The water jerries are mounted on top of what are slabs of roughly cut mild steel, which form a counterweight for the crane, which allows the vehicle to swim. The steel jerries on the rear plate - which carried engine and transmission oils - are Italeri. The engine louvre mesh came from Mousehouse (stay tuned for a review!).





I added some plumbing mounts on the crane, and some hose mounts on the vehicle roof using brass tube.

There's still a few very minor bits to add, but the Fitter is tantalisingly close to becoming my first completed M113 ... alas, if I was going to put some paint in the gun, I though I'd better make a day of it, and started my 134192:

Again, I used an Academy hull and a Mousehouse fuel cell. Because I plan to have the cargo hatch open, I will need to make the interior more elaborate than the fitter. I Academy fuel cell just had to go - it looks ot be a scale 30cm too long! There will be a multitude of other sins - the standard kit seats being too high on the sponsons among them, but the detail level should be good enough for glimpses though the open top deck hatches (the rear hatch will be closed). Many Aussie carriers has rubber mats in the interior, and I represented this with several layers of very thin plasticard and liquid cement.




I sorted through no less than nine T50 turrets I had accumulated and various cargo hatches with the Australian filter cover - starting with the solid block Verlinden item I bought in 1991 - and the best of them was a nicely done hollow cast turret amd hatch from Aussie Armour - which is still marketed by Mousehouse.

What struck me was the huge variance in dimensions, but the biggest bugbear was that the T50 turret is not centralised on its pivot and has a distinct rear overhang - only Accurate Armour and Aussie Armour got it right.





Going though my photo files, it appears I don't have a snap of the T50 turret basket. I'll need to fashion one for 134192, as it will be visible through the cargo and turret hatches ... watch this space.

Anyway, I'm determined to get these two Aussie buckets complete, and maybe start a few more, so keep the requests for updates coming!
taylgr
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Posted: Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 08:08 PM UTC
Mick

posted some T50 basket pics on this thread - if you need them - can only imagine Rwanda was a nasty one - be careful when you head back


https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/129455&page=1


Greg
jasmils
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Posted: Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 09:25 PM UTC
G'day Mick,

"What struck me was the huge variance in dimensions, but the biggest bugbear was that the T50 turret is not centralised on its pivot and has a distinct rear overhang - only Accurate Armour and Aussie Armour got it right."

Mouse House has got it right and includes the basket and corrected engine acess panels.

It was nice to finally put a face to the name when i meet you at Battalion.
Have a look at this link to an SAS M113 me and a mate have been working on.
SAS M113

The photo referance for this build was done by using your photos of the Gerbil's car.
Also, here are a couple of other parts that I have made.
Let me know if your after anything.
And it is great to see you back into the hobby.

Cheers Jason


ppawlak1
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Posted: Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 09:37 PM UTC
G'day Mick !

This is a great thread on a riveting subject thanks for posting !

Cheers

Paul
Heatseeker64
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 10:44 PM UTC
Thanks for the feedback guys .... Jason, I never left the hobby, I just never got around to building a bucket!

I have quite a photo file on those Mogadishu A2s including interiors. PM me your e-mail and I'll scan a few hard copies.

Those were the days - a RAAF Air Traffic Controller driving, a few Pussers riding shotgun in the back and a Gerbil Sergeant behind the .50 in the cupola!

jasmils
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Posted: Friday, December 05, 2008 - 12:26 AM UTC
Thanks for the offer Mick, [email protected] . The first lot of photo's of yours were from A&NZD and a few John HF.
I pretty much just need to know what radio harness it used? I think the 77 set in a power tray. Where as the B Sqn 3/4 Cav cars have the VIC1 harness (i.e. 524's).
I have started on a crew for it as well. It's going to be hard to paint pusser slides on the driver. The figures will also include the SAS boys in full garb once I figure out how to sculpt the pixelated (spelling) faces.


Cheers Jason
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Friday, December 05, 2008 - 12:43 AM UTC
Ah yes, but "Dundee" didn't need any pixelation!

bison126
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Posted: Friday, December 05, 2008 - 01:00 AM UTC
Hi,
nice to see your works in progress. Those variants are interesting and change us from the "simple box" M113.

Keep on posting
Olivier
newfish
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Posted: Friday, December 05, 2008 - 02:44 AM UTC
intereasting story good luck mate =]

there looking really good cant wait to see them finished !

=]

ptruhe
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Posted: Friday, December 05, 2008 - 02:02 PM UTC
Both impressive but especially everything crammed on the Fitter.

Paul
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 01:43 AM UTC
Okay then ... well, after 18 years of procrastinating, I sat down for one day and managed to nut out a simple but effective T50 turret basket:



Bear in mind that this model will only have the top hatches open, and rather than do a super detail, I just wanted some bits to "to fill the hole", which is starting to happen nicely. Now the turret basket is in place, those engine panel decals I fastidiously applied are all but invisible, so a lot of interior detail is often wasted. That said, with its multitude of top hatches and that big sucker at the rear, the M113 is a great candidate for a super detailing project.



I finally found a vaild use for one small part of the Italeri M113 - the inner ring for the cupole formed the basis for the basket floor ... that said, I don't like my chances of using any of the remaining bits.



The turret will be fixed in a forward position, so I was able to mount the "legs" to the hull top, and adjusted their length so they sat on the top of the basket floor. Those pesky and poorly detailed Tamiya ammo boxes from an ancient Abrams kit were butchered to represent the various boxes:





I should be able to paint the basket bits tomorrow, and the hull top should be set in place after some weathering and shading: Note how I lowered the bench seat height compared with the first lot of photographs (the detail underneath them is wrong, but it won't be visible)



The sponson armour is now in place, so this Aussie gun bucket is coming together!



jimz66
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Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 01:57 AM UTC
Interesting subject Nick. Off to a great start. The interior looks very decent. Keep it coming. I can't wait to see this one finished.

This is a project that I can be envious of. You have first hand knowledge of the vehicle as you served with them. I wish I could say that . You have first hand recollections and images of them. Good luck. Looking good so far.
WayneB
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 03:04 AM UTC
Mick,

Great builds. I don’t suppose you would mind sharing some of your reference photo’s. I have to admit I am a bit of an Aussie 113 junkie, and you can never have enough reference photo’s. Am currently planning an ARVL project so any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

W
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 03:02 PM UTC
Dammit! ... I should never have bought those three M113 fuel cells and engine screens from MouseHouse ... for the purpose of a review in Armorama I installed one to a Tamiya hull and another in an Academy to see how they fitted.

Next thing I knew I had an Aussie M113A1 Fitter all but finished, and then I figured that I may as well build one with a T50 turret and paint them UN white at the same time ... then there was that ancient Tamiya hull with the fuel cell fitted which kept crying out to me ...





I've had several carriers in the stash I intended to build up as Aussie vehicles for almost a couple of decades now, but I have always baulked at building them because the Tamiya and Academy fuel cells were so woeful they were unusable ... the Mousehouse replacement makes an upgrade a "no brainer".

I'm not one for installing interior detail which will never be seen, but when the cargo hatch on an M113 APC is open, the fuel cell is a very visible feature.

Anyway, a year or so back I bought the Legend M113 accessory set to clutter my Centurion, and a very nice sandbag floor was going begging ... then there was this Tamiya hull with the MouseHouse fuel cell fitted, so I decided to build an early Aussie M113A1 in Vietnam.

Just to give the vehicle a differnt look, I decided to fit the track shrouds and use the open cupola with .50 calibre machine gun and shield. This course also negated the need to add mounting holes to the Tamiya hull if I decided to depict a vehicle without shrouds.

Firestorm do a very nice Aussie APC crew, which will fill the hatches, so once again, I just needed a few details to fill the void. I used the Tamiya interior, which has the one piece engine access hatch correct for the early Vietnam era (not that it will be all that visble anyway with the ramp up), and fitted the Academy seats I didn't use in the Fitter.

But getting back to the subject at hand, the T50 turret M113A1 is now ready to be sealed up ... I had agonised over a turret basket for years, and in the end I nutted out an effective depiction in a few hours, and I like the result very much.





Now there are a few M113 ACVs and mortar cars lurking about in the my stash, but it just so happens I am fresh out of MouseHouse fuel cells, so it's unlikely the projects in this thread will multiply anytime soon ... at least until I place another order!



Heatseeker64
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 07:10 PM UTC
The Rwanda T50 carrier is now all closed up complete with engine deck, and the Vietnam carrier has been given a basic interior detail and a coat of paint - obviously a bit more needs to on in and some weathering is needed:





Does anyone know what type of radios Aussie carriers mounted during the Vietnam era and if there are any available in 1/35 scale?
newfish
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 10:29 PM UTC
there looking great !

is the sand bag floor from fire storm models?

i cant wait to seee them finished!!!


jasmils
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 11:01 PM UTC
G'day Mick,
Aussie Armour has a VIC 1 harness for the Australian carriers. Or you could use the Verlinden Nato Radio set. Both have the 524's.
Or give me a call and I will see how i can help you out with the full fit out.

Cheers Jason
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 12:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

G'day Mick,
Aussie Armour has a VIC 1 harness for the Australian carriers. Or you could use the Verlinden Nato Radio set. Both have the 524's.
Or give me a call and I will see how i can help you out with the full fit out.

Cheers Jason



Okay then .... went through the two decades of various bits I have accumulated and found no less than five RT524 sets and four RT64 sets ... a mix of Verlinden, Legend and what I guess is an Aussie Armour set.

There are photographs of this vehicle - callsign Niner, in Cecil's book showing it with sandbag floor armour:



AWM caption reads:

December 1966. Four South Vietnamese farm labourers walking past an M113A1 Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC). This carrier, with the call sign nine (9), is the Headquarters vehicle for the 1st APC Squadron, Royal Australian Armoured Corps, and is equipped with four antennae to denote the extra wireless sets carried. Apart from the Australian driver and vehicle commander, a third Australian (possibly the Squadron Commander) is standing in the rear compartment wearing headphones and consulting a map. The two soldiers on top of the decking appear to be members of the Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) and may be accompanying the Australians as guides or interpreters. The vehicle is armed with a .50 calibre M2 Browning heavy machine gun (mg). Ammunition boxes for the .50 Calibre M2 mg are visible on the decking, within reach of the vehicle commander.

I think callsign 9 was 134220, and there are pictures of it still with the sandbag floor as late as 1968.

I presume the radio fitout would be an RT524 and RT64 set on each side wall, hence the four aerials?

Any ideas on what the ammo stowage for the .50 on the top deck would have been?
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 12:13 AM UTC
It's from the Legend M113 accessory set, and very nice it is too ... obvious made for the Academy kit, but I fitted it to the Tamiya '113 no problems ...
newfish
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 12:37 AM UTC
cool fire strom do one aswell

how long have you been building these kits then?
how are you going to paint them
newfish
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 12:39 AM UTC

im sure verlinden do the radios your looking for

can yo explain how you did the turret basket please =]
DAR
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 01:10 AM UTC
Lovely builds Mick. As soon as I finish something I really need to start my Oz armour.
jasmils
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 01:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I presume the radio fitout would be an RT524 and RT64 set on each side wall, hence the four aerials?



Ok, It's been a while but here goes.

Left hand side of the car, from front to rear, "C" set RT 524, "A" set RT 524, right hand side
front to rear, "B" set PRC25 with 2060 Amp (also known as a 77 set on a mounting try)** "D" set RT524.
To complete the fit out you will also need 3-4 2298's (the small box in my post above) and 1 1780 (the large rectangle in my post above).
AMU's are the same for all radios.
If you want a cable diagram let me know.

As for the .50's that will depend on a few differant thing's. What time period you are looking at wheather it was 66 or 68. But now that I have re-read the post's it looks like you are doing the late 66 car with the latest radio's (at the time). In that case, a number of racks had been made by then. Square ones that would hold 9 liners, long rectangle racks that held the same. Best bet is to find any photo's of a car from the same Troop or even partol and go with that they are sporting.

The photo in Mikes book also shows the cable ramp pully.
** PRC25 not quite correct but close enough for this build I think.
Cheers Jason
Heatseeker64
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 10:26 PM UTC
Here's my basic layout for the radios in the Vietnam carrier ... a little bit more detailing is needed but you get the idea. I positioned the shelves using the Aussie Armour instructions and mirrored it on the opposite wall. Does anyone know what colour the switches (the separate one in the driver's compartment) are?



newfish
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 10:47 PM UTC
good progress =] where did u get the radios from?

is this an aussie m113?

 _GOTOTOP