Armor/AFV: Braille Scale
1/72 and 1/76 Scale Armor and AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Airfix M119/L118
tread_geek
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Posted: Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 04:40 AM UTC
Mike reshaped the electrons to say:

Quoted Text

The wooden crate is the standard two round packing for 105mm shells. Inside the crate are two black fiber tubes which hold the rounds.

At 1/72 they will be tiny.

Glad to have been of help. Anything else just pull my lanyard!!



I've found a site that had quite a bit of information and pictures of 105 ammo that was primarily about post WW II rounds and packaging. They mentioned about two round boxes and black cardboard tubes. I've got the tube dimensions of 5" x 32" so if the box holds two tubes I'm guessing a box dimensions of 36"L X 16-18"W X 8-10"H? I'll try to find that site again and see if they have the actual numbers. Even at my guess dimensions the size is positively huge compared to some of the parts I had to deal with.

I used Prime Portal quite a bit during my build as the instructions are quite ambiguous in places.

Keith reshaped further electrons to comment:

Quoted Text

Looking good Jan. Can't wait to see them painted.

I also can't believe you're gonna do a vignette and add tiny ammo crates?! Actually after seeing that microscopic piece in the alligator clip I can believe that.

My hat's off!



Thanks for the comments. I should also thank again all the people here that have provided information that has proved quite valuable in this build. As I mention above, the ammo crates are rather "huge" when compared to some of the parts that I've had to deal with. The clip in the picture you mention is holding the elevation and traverse hand wheels and is actually three parts. About the same size is the sight and even smaller is an adjustment knob on the towing end if the trail.

I've begun the painting and it (and the size of the kit) are presenting their own issues. I'm having to use a very, very thin brush with diluted paint to do the base NATO green. The problem is that there are so many miniscule crevices (especially in and around the gun cradle) that the paint from the airbrush just isn't or can't reach. I'm also reviewing all the images of the gun I have to see if there isn't a detail or two that I might easily add.

Now to talk to an ophthalmologist about correcting these crossed eyes!

Cheers,
Jan
weathering_one
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Posted: Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 04:47 PM UTC
I am truly impressed (and intimidated) by builds like this. I usually build OOB and wonder why I ever signed up for this site. I've seen too many small scale builders take things beyond the point of what I used to think was sanity? Maybe in the future there is hope for me?

Intriguing build,

AJ
woltersk
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Posted: Friday, August 07, 2009 - 03:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The clip in the picture you mention is holding the elevation and traverse hand wheels and is actually three parts. About the same size is the sight and even smaller is an adjustment knob on the towing end if the trail.

I've begun the painting and it (and the size of the kit) are presenting their own issues. I'm having to use a very, very thin brush with diluted paint to do the base NATO green. The problem is that there are so many miniscule crevices (especially in and around the gun cradle) that the paint from the airbrush just isn't or can't reach. I'm also reviewing all the images of the gun I have to see if there isn't a detail or two that I might easily add.

Now to talk to an ophthalmologist about correcting these crossed eyes!

Cheers,
Jan



That miniscule bit is made up of 3 parts??? Wholly crap!
AJ is right--that kind of work is intimidating.
And speaking of the eye doctor, you do use some kind of magnifying glass or a jeweler' s loop? Keep up the good work. Slow and steady....
tread_geek
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Posted: Friday, August 07, 2009 - 08:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That miniscule bit is made up of 3 parts??? Wholly crap!
AJ is right--that kind of work is intimidating.



I kid you not, the item is three pieces. Not the smallest I've ever worked with but close. Here's one page of the instructions and the hand wheels are assembly #3. You can see also how convoluted the instructions are. BTW, the scale of the instructions make them about 30% larger than the parts they represent.




Quoted Text

pAnd speaking of the eye doctor, you do use some kind of magnifying glass or a jeweler' s loop?



My trusty pair of enhanced vision devices. They are five power.



Some of the tools of 1/72 surgery.



My favourite and indispensable tool seen gripping a Waffen SS officer. It is plunger operated like a syringe and has five expanding claws at it's business end.



I was working on the ammo boxes today after finding a great Web site that had images and details galore. While there are a few different boxes they all average about 38"X13"X7" or a scale size of .5"X.17"X.09" or for any metric friends 13mmX4.3mmX2.3mm.
Not much to show of them at this point. In between I have been still attacking the nooks and crannies of the towed howitzer with NATO green wash in a 60/40 paint thinner ratio to reduce streaking. I find that I must let each coat thoroughly dry or the next coat lifts the previous. Here's the SLOW result after three washes.



Thanks to all for looking and commenting. I think that I need the encouragement to continue with this insanity. Oh, and I also noticed in several pictures that the levelling springs on the sides are quite often covered with canvas or some similar material. I've experimented with using cheap single ply tissue to create them but it doesn't form well on the ends. Next up I'll see what I can do with some Milliput.

Cheers,
Jan

Navyelephant
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Posted: Friday, August 07, 2009 - 10:39 AM UTC
Bedford 4 Ton would not normally tow the Light Gun. The original Gun Tractor was the 1 Ton Land Rover, Cab Forward. Airfix acquired the production tool for this kit along with the Light Gun. Today the Gun Tractor is the Pinzgauer.
panzerIV
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Posted: Friday, August 07, 2009 - 11:49 AM UTC
hi there treadgeek

cant wait to see these ammo crates your surgery instruments are impressive =]
sorry if ive lead you on about the 4ton bedford towing the gun i have only told what i have seen.
if roberts right then take his mode of transport and good luck

tony

tread_geek
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Posted: Friday, August 07, 2009 - 01:38 PM UTC
Robert, thanks for your comments. I have found several images of the howitzer being towed by a 4 ton Bedford. Since I have one in my stash I will most likely choose that as the towing vehicle. I am leaning toward the towed 105 being an L119 with green and black camo and the other gun as a US M119 in three colour camo.

Cheers,
Tread_geek
tread_geek
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Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hi there treadgeek

cant wait to see these ammo crates your surgery instruments are impressive =]
sorry if ive lead you on about the 4ton bedford towing the gun i have only told what i have seen.
if roberts right then take his mode of transport and good luck

tony



Thanks for your comments, Tony. Your having seen the gun towed by a Bedford and the images I've found mean that the combination is not an impossibility. While the Land Rover may have been more the "official" towing vehicle I am sure that the military will utilize whatever they have to get a job done. The M119 has a Hummer cargo listed as it's "official" towing vehicle yet I have images of a 5 ton U.S. 6 X 6 towing it. There seems to be a viable case to use "artistic license" when deciding on a towing vehicle.

Cheers,
tread_geek
panzerIV
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Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 04:42 AM UTC
hey there tread_geek

have you got the link for the images you found of the 4tonne bedford towing the l119.
as i cant remember very well as when i saw the bedford towing the l119 it was on the way to yorkshire on my holidays but yet this was a long time ago. and my 5 years with the army cadet force we only used the 4 tonne bedford for troop carrying us into excersise.

have you decided on a diorama for your l119 and bedford ??


tony
tread_geek
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Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 07:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

have you got the link for the images you found of the 4tonne bedford towing the l119.



Tom, me bad! I should have downloaded the images into my iPhoto but I didn't. The first I tried to go back to gave me the dreaded "404" error and the other is saying something about temporarily unavailable. IIRC, in both pictures the Bedford had green and black camo. One gun was plain green and the other was green/black. I do have one downloaded photo that proves how necessity is the mother of invention as the howitzers "appear" to have been towed by what looks like Unimog trucks. (I'm no expert I just compared a model of one with the picture.) Perhaps Robert (Navyelephant) will clear up the vehicle identity.



You can see a larger size image here.


Quoted Text

as i cant remember very well as when i saw the bedford towing the l119 it was on the way to yorkshire on my holidays but yet this was a long time ago. and my 5 years with the army cadet force we only used the 4 tonne bedford for troop carrying us into excersise.



I trust your recollection and it seems to be somewhat supported by the comments of the builder at link you provided in an earlier posting.


Quoted Text

have you decided on a diorama for your l119 and bedford ??



I am still mulling over potentials for a vignette. Perhaps an emplacement similar to the box art of the kit. A local modeller has pointed out that these guns are possibly early production variants as they have a two baffle muzzle brake where virtually all the pictures that I've seen have a single baffle. That implies to me that if I team a gun up with the Bedford then the time frame would be the 1980's?

Cheers,
t_g
woltersk
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Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 11:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

My trusty pair of enhanced vision devices. They are five power.

Some of the tools of 1/72 surgery.

My favourite and indispensable tool seen gripping a Waffen SS officer. It is plunger operated like a syringe and has five expanding claws at it's business end.



Hey Jan,
I've hit that age where I'm gonna need some optical assistance. I've been looking for a set of those lenses (pun fully intended).
Your toolset is impressive. Pinching tweazers just don't cut it for me anymore. Parts have sprang loose, flown across the room only to be sacrificed to the carpet monster.

The kit is looking good. Can't wait for more updates.

Keith


KJA
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 04:54 AM UTC
Hi Jan, just caught up with your build of these guns. Great work in such a small scale. Regarding the picture you posted, those soldiers and vehicles aren't British. I would say Dutch, as they use a very similar DPM pattern on their clothes, however the boots, berets and capbadges are not British.

As others have said the FC101 Landrover was the official gun tractor before the Pinzgauer. However, you can never say never in this game, and no-one could say that a 4 tonner never towed a light gun.
tread_geek
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 07:20 AM UTC
Greetings to all the parties interested in this build. I've just got a quick photo of the howitzers after a session with the airbrush. Sorry for the poorer than usual picture quality but I wanted to get on with the painting and just took it with the camera in "Auto" and built-in flash. Three varying shades of NATO green have been applied over a pre-shading of olive drab. As I assumed, the painting process took much longer than many of my previous builds. The small size was a major factor in it taking so long. I hope to have more and better pictures to post as the painting develops.




Quoted Text

've hit that age where I'm gonna need some optical assistance. I've been looking for a set of those lenses (pun fully intended).



Keith, I've always used some form of magnification even when I first started building Braille scale. The primary reason for the optical visor was the damning ability of digital cameras to show the most miniscule of flaws. Even still the camera catches things that are not so apparent even with the visor.


Quoted Text

Your toolset is impressive. Pinching tweazers just don't cut it for me anymore. Parts have sprang loose, flown across the room only to be sacrificed to the carpet monster.



When I think of the number of times both my wife and I have been on hands and knees with flashlights looking for an errant tiny part that launched itself from ordinary tweezers! It was due to these occasions that Annie found and bought the Mark V Pen style Gripper and it has proved to be a heaven sent item.


Quoted Text

Hi Jan, just caught up with your build of these guns. Great work in such a small scale. Regarding the picture you posted, those soldiers and vehicles aren't British. I would say Dutch, as they use a very similar DPM pattern on their clothes, however the boots, berets and capbadges are not British.

As others have said the FC101 Landrover was the official gun tractor before the Pinzgauer. However, you can never say never in this game, and no-one could say that a 4 tonner never towed a light gun.



Ken, thank you for clarifying the picture and also for your interest. One of our local militia units is a 105mm battery and while they normally tow the howitzers with 2 1/2 ton trucks I've seen one towed by a 5 ton. As you mention, I am sure that there is always an exception to every rule.

Cheers,
Jan
Navyelephant
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 09:34 AM UTC
That's fine. I am just reflecting my experience over 8 years, 4 of which was with the Royal Artillery. L119 is the UK designation for a Training weapon, it uses the US 105mm ammo, of which there was a significant spare quantity from the use of the 105 PAK HOWITZER. The US Light Units e.g. 10th Mountain, 82nd Airborne etc. use L119 and a HMMVW as the gun tractor. Barrel length is the only visible difference between 119 and 118.
Removed by original poster on 08/10/09 - 21:31:12 (GMT).
Navyelephant
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Posted: Monday, August 10, 2009 - 10:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

have you got the link for the images you found of the 4tonne bedford towing the l119.



Tom, me bad! I should have downloaded the images into my iPhoto but I didn't. The first I tried to go back to gave me the dreaded "404" error and the other is saying something about temporarily unavailable. IIRC, in both pictures the Bedford had green and black camo. One gun was plain green and the other was green/black. I do have one downloaded photo that proves how necessity is the mother of invention as the howitzers "appear" to have been towed by what looks like Unimog trucks. (I'm no expert I just compared a model of one with the picture.) Perhaps Robert (Navyelephant) will clear up the vehicle identity.



You can see a larger size image here.


Quoted Text

as i cant remember very well as when i saw the bedford towing the l119 it was on the way to yorkshire on my holidays but yet this was a long time ago. and my 5 years with the army cadet force we only used the 4 tonne bedford for troop carrying us into excersise.



I trust your recollection and it seems to be somewhat supported by the comments of the builder at link you provided in an earlier posting.


Quoted Text

have you decided on a diorama for your l119 and bedford ??



I am still mulling over potentials for a vignette. Perhaps an emplacement similar to the box art of the kit. A local modeller has pointed out that these guns are possibly early production variants as they have a two baffle muzzle brake where virtually all the pictures that I've seen have a single baffle. That implies to me that if I team a gun up with the Bedford then the time frame would be the 1980's?

Cheers,
t_g



My guess is that the picture is of Portuguese Artillery - Unimog Gun Tractor.
tread_geek
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Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 09:27 AM UTC
Some better progress shots with the camera set up for macro. I had a minor setback with the gun in the firing position. The pin that holds the cradle to the carriage snapped off while I was detail painting. In the process of trying to drill a hole in the cradle for a new pin I snapped off one of the "equalizer?" struts/arms. Here's a picture of the replaced pin and the arm reattached.



Here's a shot of the muzzle area of the firing position gun. Getting some metalic colour into the drilled out barrel was tedious to say the least.



Here's the towed gun with some details started.



I think that I had the flash set too high as not only is the NATO green not that light but it also bleached out the variations of the colour.

Thanks for looking.
Jan
woltersk
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Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 10:48 PM UTC
Jan,
They're looking good. Coming along well, despite the minor setbacks. A test in patience?
Did you use a paint brush to apply the metal color to the muzzle? Or just drop a bit off of the tip of a needle?

Keith
tread_geek
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Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 08:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Did you use a paint brush to apply the metal color to the muzzle? Or just drop a bit off of the tip of a needle?



Would you believe that I use a 1/72 scale paintbrush hend in a pair of tweeezers?

Seriously, I use a 10/0 brush that's about two-thirds the size of the bore of the muzzle. Here's a picture of both in close proximity.



Now I've been playing with the camera and flash settings and after about a dozen plus shots have got the colours closer to reality than my previous shots.



The firing position gun is pretty much ready for weathering. I just need to add a couple more black splotches. I've also been tinkering with a vignette base but am not having great success. I haven't done anything like it in way too long.

Cheers,
Jan
metooshelah
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Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 09:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text







My favourite and indispensable tool seen gripping a Waffen SS officer. It is plunger operated like a syringe and has five expanding claws at it's business end.







hey there! what's the name of this tool, and could you direct me to somewhere i can purchase it?
tread_geek
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Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 11:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text


hey there! what's the name of this tool, and could you direct me to somewhere i can purchase it?



Matan, The tool is called the Mark V Pen style Gripper and it has proved to be a heaven sent item. I know that it wasn't that obvious but I posted it a few postings back. It's made by the company that makes model railroad items. My wife found it at a local hobby shop quite by accident and thought that I could use it (too many parts flying out of my tweezers) . I imagine that it would work for many different scales.

Cheers,
tread_geek
woltersk
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Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 01:12 PM UTC
Jan,
They are really coming along. What a difference a touch of color makes!

With the new settings the green does look less Warsaw Pact-ish, but the photos seem a bit grainier. Would more back-lighting help? As you noticed I have the same issue with my PAS. When it is set to Macro with the flash set to 'Low' the details are crisp and clear but the colors get washed out.

The tri-color scheme looks good. Did you apply the black and brown with that same 1/72 scale brush?
tsingtao
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Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 08:11 PM UTC
Nice progress,The coloring makes it better.

wang
tread_geek
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Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 06:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

With the new settings the green does look less Warsaw Pact-ish, but the photos seem a bit grainier. Would more back-lighting help? As you noticed I have the same issue with my PAS. When it is set to Macro with the flash set to 'Low' the details are crisp and clear but the colors get washed out.



Keith, in reviewing the photo data it seems that the camera set the ISO at 400 speed and thus the grainy appearance. I'm still experimenting to try to find the right camera/flash settings. I'll give a try with the flash positioned off the camera in remote mode. For Braille subjects I find I get the best detail with the camera set around F20 in aperture priority mode so I don't want to change those settings.


Quoted Text

The tri-color scheme looks good. Did you apply the black and brown with that same 1/72 scale brush?



Would you believe a 1/72 scale compressor and airbrush?


Quoted Text

Nice progress,The coloring makes it better.



Wang, thank you for looking and commenting. Lets see if Google translate works...感謝您的評論王。

Cheers,
Jan
sabredog
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Posted: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 06:29 PM UTC
Looking great so far!

It is amazing what can be done with some of the older kits, providing you have enough patience to remove all the evidence of the kits advanced age

Cheers

Mike