I have a older Tamiya KV-1B kit that I have had stashed away for awhile and want to build up. I also want to use photo etch and the individual track links for the first time.

I know the model kit is out of date in terms of accuracy and needs some modification to make it more accurate. I want to use the kit to learn the use of photo etched sets that are on the market.

1. What modifications need to be done to the plastic parts that come in the kit? I know on the main deck it has a "V" shaped armor block in from of the turret ring and two smaller blocks to the rear that should be removed based on some drawings I have of the KV-1 Ehkranami. Anything else?

2. What track link sets would anybody recommend for an early KV?

3. What photo etch sets would you recommend?

Joe

Joseph I am not going to knock you for taken this on, however as you are going to spend a reasonable sum of money on trying to upgrade this kit I would suggest you get your hands on one of the Trumpeter KV tanks as they can be picked up cheaply and are a lot more accurate to start with. By all means build the Tamiya kit, which I believe is based on the KV at Bovington, but use it in a diorama where some of its problems are hidden away.

There are two sets of KV tracks available from Friul (heavy and light) I believe both can be used. AM barrels are numerous and my preference would be JB Models for it, mainly based on price of the product and realistically priced postage. The PE sets really depends on your preference of manufacturer and how much money you want to throw at the build.

I hope this helps.

IIRC, the Tamiya KV-1B was first released sometime in the early 1970s, with an upgrade sometime circa 1989. When Tamiya updated the kit, they provided parts that could only be used with the applique armor, so building other versions of the tank from this kit required some serious scratchbuilding. I don't have this kit in my stash currently, but I remember the tracks being pretty poor. Dimensionally, I think the kit was fine for the most part.

If you haven't seen it yet, Neil Stokes compiled a nice bit of information on the KV series tanks, and you can find it here.

Eduard makes a detail set for the Tamiya kit, and Squadron carries it.

As an aside, the Trumpeter KV-1 kits really can't be beat from a value standpoint. They are much more accurate to start with, build up very well, and I've consistently scored them at my LHS for around $20.

HTH.

-YL

Don’t you hate when you say, “I have kit “A”. What do I have do to clean it up?” and you’re told “Oh, don’t build kit “A” build “B” instead”?

I wholeheartedly agree that Neil Stokes work is well worth checking out before you begin.

OK, the answer depends on how far you want to take it accuracy wise.
You already have part of the answer; the “V” shaped armor strip needs to be removed as do the two smaller strips on the engine deck. That will take you far in making the kit look more like the real thing.

Next, later versions of the KV omitted some of the bolts on the engine deck and on the cover above the transmission. If you look at the Tamiya kit you see a pattern like this: **(space)**(space)**(space)**
You need to fill the spaces with a bolt head, 9 in all IIRC.
The rope and hook setup on the engine hatch needs to be changed a bit too.
Also on the engine hatch the “dome” portion is a bit small. There are a couple of ways you could go about fixing that but the way I did it was to take section of a paint mixing tray which had six semispherical “bowls” about an inch and a half in diameter. I used a circle template and marked a section 7/8 inch in diameter, cut this off using a razor saw, glued the piece in place, and then blended the edges in with a bit of epoxy putty (actually looks pretty good).

Replacing the intake screens add a lot to the looks of the model too. PE sets for Tamiya or even Trumpeter’s should work (with a bit of extra fitting).

There are detail differences between “early” and “late” hatches for the driver and transmission access.

On the lower hull your biggest problem is the poor wheels. You can either live with them or, I believe, there are some AM sets available out there. On the cheap side you can glue a ring of the appropriate thickness to the inside face of each wheel and add a small spacer between the two halves so that they clear the track’s guide horn.
There are some small details that you can work on if you wish, like the caps on each of the suspension arms. On the Tamiya kit there are three bolt heads (as would be the case with later hulls) but the earlier type that would be used for the E would have had six.

Any AM tracks for the KV will do and you may be able to find a set of Trumpeter kit tracks cheap since I’ve seen quite a few on like that have been replaced with Friuls.

There are some items that could use attention on the turret but I don’t remember the specifics.

Good luck and have fun!

Mark

Hello everyone:
I just purchased a Tamiya KV1, looks like I will have some work bench time with it after reading here.


Robert

I would hate that too, Mark, except that's not at all what was said. Darren was very clear when he wrote "By all means build the Tamiya kit" after pointing out the extra money involved. And when I talked about the Trumpeter KVs, I prefaced it by writing "as an aside".

Darren gave information about available tracks and gun barrels, and I linked Neil Stokes' KV Seminar and the available Eduard PE. Neither Darren nor I provided as much detailed information as you did regarding the actual build (good stuff, by the way), but I don't see anything that could be construed as saying, "That Tamiya kit is a dog, don't waste your time with it, build the Trumpeter kit instead." In all honesty, we've had modelers on this forum who have said exactly that, or worse, when asked similar questions. I don't believe this was one of those times.

The fact is that the Trumpeter kits are superior to the Tamiya offering in terms of accuracy, but pointing that out doesn't mean that Joe shouldn't take the time or put the effort into building up the Tamiya KV. I hope he takes all the info here and uses it to build the kit as he sees fit.

Just my two shekels.

-YL

Well, I hate it unless someone tells me that fixing the old kit will actually cost more money than buying the new kit, which is the case here. A set of Friul or Modelkasten tracks will cost much more than buying the entire Trumpeter kit, which comes with a superb set of link and length styrene tracks in the box (as well as a set of very nice vinyl tracks, for less hardy souls). If chucking the Tamiya kit entirely seems a sinful waste, the leftover Trumpeter vinyl tracks could be adapted to dress it up as well (after you refine the drive sprockets a bit).
Eduard's photoetch for the Trumpeter kit will work here (the engine screens are easier to assemble than Aber's, though be very gentle--the Eduard brass is as soft as foil and can be stretched out of shape if handled roughly). The screens could also be used on the Tamiya item if one is determined to build it.

"I would suggest you get your hands on one of the Trumpeter KV tanks as they can be picked up cheaply and are a lot more accurate to start with."

"As an aside, the Trumpeter KV-1 kits really can't be beat from a value standpoint. They are much more accurate to start with, build up very well, and I've consistently scored them at my LHS for around $20."

OK, no problems. I mistook the inference. My bad.

Nor did I, or would I, suggest that your information regarding add-ons for the old kit were without value. Quite the opposite.

Now if the poster had said he intended to buy the Tamiya KV, well then I might be right with y'all in trying to steer him away. But since he suggest that he already has the Tamiya kit......

Quoting myself:
"Any AM tracks for the KV will do and you may be able to find a set of Trumpeter kit tracks cheap since I’ve seen quite a few on like that have been replaced with Friuls."
(Oi! I think I meant "...quite a few that have been replaced....")

I always thought spending as much, or more, on tracks when those in the kit are fine was a bit odd but I've seen more than a few do it. In any case, since those Trump kits come with two sets of tracks, he should still be able to come up with a set for next to nothing or even free. All that needs be done is ask.
In fact, hey, Joseph, if you want them I can send you the rubberband tracks from my KV-2.

Oh, and BTW, Joseph, the Trump kit is by far the better if you don't want to do the work on the Tamiya version.


Mark

No harm no fail on my part, I just didn't want to see someone throw money at correcting and adding AM items only to be unhappy with the possible result. The Tamiya kit is easy to put together and does look like a KV straight from the box (I know I have made one in the past and still have it, The Shame ) I believed that Joseph wanted to build an accurate KV and improve his skills with PE and the like. I did say build the KV but use it in such a way that the issues with the kit are not so apparent. Any of the Trumpeter KV kits will cost him less to improve in the long run, even with the cost of the kit included which is the information I was trying to give him. Sorry if I was not clear.

The Lion roar PE set comes with a barrel, and while not perfect is cheap £10 in the UK which I believe is about $16 and I suspect it will cost him less than that in the US. The set is reviewed here on Armorama by Jim Rae.

An excellent point regarding the Trumpy tracks, since even the rubberband versions are slightly better detailed than the parts in the Tamiya kit. I know I have at least one set in the parts bin myself, if anyone wants them.

-YL

Thank you to all for your feedback. It will be of help.

Mark, thanks, all your comments were great and will be of help in my build.

Yoni, thanks on the KV reference, it is a good file.

I do have the Tamiya KV-1B, actually, a couple of them. I want to try out using the photo etch and other aftermarket parts on one of them, because I have never used them before and wanted to try out on an older kit I had rather than buy a new, more expensive one and potentialy make mistakes and ruin a new kit. New kits are not cheap these days. Even the Trumpeter KV-1 cost more than the Tamiya's I bought on e-Bay for about $10.

I found a photo etch set for the Tamiya KV from a Ukrainian company called ACE on e-Bay for under $10 including shipping. So it looks like I can do the photo etch part on the cheap.

The tracks look to be a bit costly, but I think if I do them for this model, I could always transfer over to another KV model later. I am leaning towards the Fruilmodel tracks based on the sale Pacific Coast Models has in the advertisement on the home page.

I also have the Trumpeter kit also, but am saving that to build later. I am more of a novice and want to improve my skills before I build it. The Trumpeter kit looks more complicated with more parts.

I tried the Trumpeter one piece vinyl tracks on another Tamiya KV-1C I have built, and it does not fit too well. The holes along the drive sprockets do not match up and the lengths are different. Thank you Mark for your offer for the KV 2 tracks you have, but I do not think I can use them for this model.

Joe

Joseph (and others)...I might add a couple of points.

Firstly, most after-market track sets including the Friuls and even the Trumpeter kit tracks will not fit the Tamiya kit because the Tamiya sprockets are incorrect. It all stems from the fact that the Tamiya hull was originally built to house their standard motorization unit, and the hull is therefore about 2mm too wide. In order not to throw off the width of the entire vehicle, Tamiya made the fenders and the tracks too narrow to compensate. Then, so that the track links looked right, they shortened the pitch of each track link. Since the links were now shorter, they required an extra tooth on the drive sprockets. Friul set ATL-10 is the best set to use for the KV-1 Model 1940 s ehkranami, and comes with white metal drive sprockets to replace the incorrect Tamiya ones.

Next, I would recommend the Eduard set 35405 for the general update. Aber's set are gorgeous but if you're a novice to PE they will drive you insane. The radiator intake screens on the Lion Roar set are the wrong shape so I wouldn't recommend it. I'm not familiar with the ACE set so I can't offer an opinion there.

As Mark pointed out, you will want to replace the missing bolts on the engine compartment and transmission compartment roof plates (there should be eleven across the front and rear edges).

The engine access hatch should have a single lifting eye with the cable attached, located midway between the two latches. The kit hatch is the later configuration with two lifting eyes, which was not introduced until the winter of 1941/42, after the ehkrany program had been terminated (in mid-July). You should also sand off the inspection port in the center of the dome, which was not introduced until the engine cooling system was reconfigured at the end of 1941.

I think that's about it. Despite some accuracy problems in both dimensions and details, the Tamiya kit goes together nicely. Enjoy!

Neil

Hey Neil,
Guys Neil is DA MAN when it comes to thing KV. Looking forward to the book!

I went back to some of my references and came up with slightly different numbers for the Tamiya hull though. Perhaps I'm using bad numbers somewhere and if so please correct me!

The dimensions I have for the KV hull width is 1880mm (and 1850mm for the KV1S).
OK, given that we get 53.714mm aprox in 1/35 scale.
I measured two of my Tamiya hulls and come up with about 53.87mm depending on where I measured (that number being the higher, the lowest being 53.73mm).
Of course that means the Tamiya hull is actually only .156mm too wide (or 5.46mm at full scale).
Even taking the 1850mm we get 52.857mm which gives up a difference of only 1.013mm (35.445mm or 1.4inches full scale)
Not too significant from my point of view. Would these errors really pushed off other dimensions significantly?

I never noticed the extra tooth on the Tamiya drives! When I made the switch to AM tracks I just used the sprockets that Fiul provided.

Mark

I didn't know there was a book in the works. Any information available on it at the moment?

-YL

Okay, looks like I screwed up

I went back to my measurements of the Aberdeen vehicle, which is basically identical to the Bovington vehicle, and came up with 1930mm for the hull width. It's possible that your 1880mm number is the internal width, though that would leave the hull sides at only 25mm thick, not 75mm. There are some annoying discrepancies between different sources such as the US Army Ordnance Corps, STT etc so I'm going to rely on my own measurements.

Doing the math, that makes the hull 55.14mm wide in 1/35 scale, which puts the Trumpeter kits almost spot-on and the Tamiya kits at 1.1-1.3mm too narrow .

Now, the fenders. First of all, let me state that the whole "wide fenders on early vehicles, narrow fenders on late vehicles" thing is a crock. There were variations between individual vehicles due to different tolerances between subcontractors but there is no correlation between the fender width and the particular variant.

The fenders on the Aberdeen vehicle are 660mm wide, which makes them 18.86mm in 1/35 scale. Trumpeter's fenders on their early variants (those with six bolts on the fender brackets) are too wide at 20mm (though they got them right on their later variants (those with four bolts on the fender brackets). Tamiya's are way off at 21mm, which makes the Tamiya kit about 3mm too wide overall.

To the tracks - the Omsh track on the Aberdeen vehicle is 700mm across the spuds, which means 20mm in 1/35 scale. Both Tamiya and Trumpter have this correct. The distance between track pin centers on adjacent links should be 4.9mm in 1/35 scale. Trumpeter got this right at ~5mm, but Tamiya is wrong at ~4.5mm which means their tracks have too many links and require a spurious extra sprocket tooth. In Tamiya's defense, I believe the error stems from an error in the STT report which lists the pitch as 6 1/4 inches whereas it should be 6 3/4 inches.

Hope this helps...

Neil

Dimensional accuracy aside, let me give you my opinions on what tweaks you need to make to the Tamiya kit to get the details right for a KV-1 Model 1940 with enkrany. I'll give you the full dump of corrections, and you can decide what you want to include or ignore.

Replace the tracks. We've talked about this above. Use the Fruil set ATL-10.

The road wheels are appropriate for a vehicle completed in the latter half of June 1941 but the six small holes around the inner disc should be larger and much shallower. Trakz TX0017 or Hussar 35003 will give you more accurate wheels. If you want to make one of the later vehicles from the first half of July, substitute Trakz TX0016 or Hussar 35002 to get the cast steel road wheels. A few vehicles carried pressed steel wheels without lightening holes (Trakz TX0019 or Hussar 35004).

The suspension arms have only three bolts securing the torsion bar caps. This variant was not introduced until the late fall/early winter, around the same time as the all-steel road wheels. there should be six bolts on each cap but this will be difficult to reproduce.

The sprockets have eight bolts securing the convex central hub cover. This is correct for a vehicle built from late September/early October 1941 onward, but not for a June/July vehicle. The Fruil sprockets are also the later variant. The only source I know of for the early sprockets is the Trumpeter kits.

The idlers are lacking the grease fitting on the hubs - if you care :-)

The deflector plate beneath the rear hull overhang is way too thick. Replace it with an etched brass part. If you're building a late June production example, you can even omit it entirely. Some vehicles at that time had no deflector plates or tail lights.

Replace the fenders. They're too wide. The problem here is that the Aber and Voyager fenders designed for the "early" Trumpeter kits replicate the width error of the Trumpeter fenders. The fenders designed for the "late" variants have the correct width but the brackets have only four bolts, not six as they should for a June/July 1941 vehicle. So you need to use the late fenders but make your own bolts for the brackets. The open, skeletal brackets were far more common on summer 1941 production examples.

Add a flange around the driver's episcope cover on the hull roof. The flange appeared in March/April 1941 and lasted until the cast turrets appeared in early 1942.

Cut away the V-shaped armor fillet in front of the turret ring. It did not appear until August. Same for the two small fillets at the rear corners of the turret.

Cut away the raised fuel and oil filler caps on the rear corners of the forward hull top. Trim them down and replace them. They should be the same height as the water filler cap at the front corner of the engine deck.

Add the missing fuel filler cap to the left-hand side, just forward of the turret ring.

Replace the radiator intake screens. The ones in the kit are the early pattern which were replaced in May by the later pattern with flattened front ends.

The dome on the engine hatch is a little small. Not much you can do here except replace it with the part from Tank Workshop. If you do decide to keep the kit part, sand off the inspection port cover from the center of the dome. That didn't appear until the end of 1941.

Replace the missing bolts on the engine compartment and transmission compartment roof plates. There should be eleven equally spaced bolts across the transverse edges.

Open up the exhausts. Alternatively, replace them with Tiger Model Deisigns' resin parts.

If you want to get really crazy, all the bolts on the engine deck should have conical heads. The flat headed bolts weren't introduced until the late fall/early winter.

The lifting eyes on the engine compartment and transmission compartment roof plates are depicted as circular 'pips' which is wrong. They should be larger, flattened from side to side and with horizontal holes.

The turret roof ventilator is a litte too wide, but that's a minor problem.

The turret hatch lacks the anti-aircraft MG mount, which was fitted to all KV-1 Model 1940s.

The interior of the turret hatch is wrong. The locking bars should be offset slightly toward the right, the operating handle is missing, and so is the grab handle at the upper right.

That's about it....best of luck!

Neil