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Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Worst model ever...allow me to vent
catman31
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Ohio, United States
Joined: September 12, 2005
KitMaker: 166 posts
Armorama: 142 posts
Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 12:55 PM UTC
I have had Zveda's BTR-80 model for several years now and finally got to it after clearing off the shelf and actually completing models; I'm on a roll! I have always liked the look of the big and beefy BTR-80 and was excited to get my hands on it. To help the kit, I also bought Armorscale's modern Soviet aerials, ModelPoint's Tucha set, Bison's Caucasus On Fire decal set, the Eduard update p.e. kit and Dream Catcher's resin tire set. I didn't know how much Evergreen plastic I would be needing as well - good thing I was stocked up.

To begin with, the instructions are, well, just awful. They are printed on what looks to be recycled newspaper and are actually more harm then help; there are part numbers that are labeled wrong and three-step construction sequences (for example) that Zveda combines in one or half steps. The illustrations do not, at all, clearly show how to assemble parts. I would give the instructions an F (I teach, so I am familiar with the letter grade system)

Furthermore, the location holes (-or- where you put part A into part B for lack of a better description) are incomplete or too small. Honestly, this is not a big deal, but it is a pain in the butt and just another reason to waste time and second guess why I am building this mess - which happened more than once along the building road.
Final assembly is mating the top half of the hull to the bottom half and when glued together, you are left with huge gaps underneath and on the side entrance doors. This reminded me of Tamiya's Sherman models with fully exposed sponsons. Strips of Evergreen solved this. Probably the worst parts were those side, middle entrance doors. Parts D34, 35, 15, and 10 just do not fit. There are parts that seem to be from other kits and this is the part of assembly where those prayers come in handy and swearing commences. I kind of just "made it up" and hoped for the best. The suspension was the second worst part. Parts are numbered wrong and the assembly process is just not correct; again, prayers and swears. The upper hull is actually not that bad, parts are extremely over simplified in other areas and the plastic is very soft. Speaking of that, the sprues are made in a fashion that when you cut a part off, it shatters or breaks in half; Sprue cutters couldn't even help here. A clear example of this oversimplified engineering is putting together hinges - Part B8 is the commander's hatch (this is not a bad looking part) that is designed to "snap" into the accommodating part on the hull - this is nothing more than two open faced "C" shaped pieces of soft plastic. It just doesn't look real and I solved this by softening the plastic even more with Tamiya thin cement and clasped it with tweezers; I can live with that.
Every part of this model, every assembly process had to be carefully studied and either rearranged, sanded down, made larger, filled, thrown out, say some prayers, and so on. I realize some of this is an inevitable part of building models, but it got to be the norm and border line ridiculous. Fit and build - F+

Thank God for the Internet - loads of reference and very neat videos of the actual vehicle in action on YouTube - just type in Grozny or BTR-80 and you'll find some interesting footage. I think it is neat when you see in real life what you are building in scale. There is also an amazing site of pictures of modern Soviet men and material here:
http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/modern/modern.htm

The Dream Catcher tire set is great; I would give this set an A.
The Tucha set by ModelPoint is beautiful as well as Armorscale's aerial set. Both receive an A and I felt at times I was wasting such good sets on such a crappy model. However, I changed my mind on this, at least, I think I have.

The Eduard p.e. set is good, but some parts are very fiddly and the headache of assembly doesn't seem to balance out the end result. Maybe it's just me, but I cannot get the hang of rolling photo etch for gun barrel muzzles. I know, I did heat it to anneal the material, but it didn't help. I settled for hollowing out the barrels. (I could not find an after-market set - ModelPoint is out of stock and so is TigerModel Design) I would give the Eduard set a B-

The Bison decal set is wonderful and the instruction sheets or call out sheets even give you painting schemes to follow and a brief setting for each vehicle depicted. This set gets an A. (although I have not used them, so this may be a bit premature...) I was just glad and surprised to see this set released. Bison is continuing to release modern Soviet sets, so glad to see this theme going strong.

Perhaps I have been a bit too harsh on the model. I mean, this is all just my opinion and it is all subjective, of course. I suppose we have come to be a bit spoiled by the latest kits these days, so a little bit of elbow grease sharpens the modeling skills a bit more. I really like this vehicle and for now, it's all we have in plastic, so onto the primer I move.
The aftermarket sets really do enhance the look of the model and they deliver a busy and more realistic look overall.

Would I build this model again? Probably not. However, I bought all the tank rider figures from MasterClub - example here:
http://www.historicahobbies.com/Russian-AFV-Rider-Modern-Winter_p_1732.html
and knew that I had to build this model to complement them. The thought is that the excellent figures will make a so-so model shine. At least, that's the idea;)

Hope this helps anyone out there thinking of building this kit. If you have any advice, I would be more than happy to take it.

Thanks!
-Felix
3442
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2004
KitMaker: 2,412 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 01:09 PM UTC
Hence why i build german and american armor only.

Their engineering skills are superior

Frank
Henk
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 07, 2004
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Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 01:13 PM UTC
Pictures, we want pictures...

If you think Eduard is fiddely, try Aber... three pieces to make 'working' tool clamps , will the lunacy ever end?

Good to hear that you percivered, now get it painted, and don't fprget tp post some pictures, please.

catman31
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Ohio, United States
Joined: September 12, 2005
KitMaker: 166 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 01:14 PM UTC
Great stuff
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 05:12 PM UTC
Well, the instructions are Zvezda's fault, but don't blame them for the engineering--it's an old Dragon mold. When Dragon/DML entered the armor market, they decided that modern Russian armor would be their niche, because nobody else was doing much. Trouble was, the Soviets were still in full paranoia mode, and everything about vehicles was a state secret, so many of these kits had to be based on fuzzy, long distance intelligence photos and were only vaguely like the original (particularly the T-72 and T-80 tank kits). The armored cars weren't so bad, as these had been widely sold abroad and western intelligence agencies had more accurate details on them which filtered out into the military press. Shortly afterward, the Cold War ended, and the Dragon kits suffered by comparison with close up photos of the actual vehicles, so when Dragon decided to commit to World War Two armor in a big way, they ditched the Cold War molds, which are now shared by Zvezda, Italeri and Revell/Germany. As mentioned, these are among the earliest molds that Dragon designed, and the engineering was mediocre.
However, if you truly want to experience the worst armor kits ever made, try the Alan Su-76 (also reboxed as an "Imperial Series" kit by Dragon) or the Zvezda T-60 light tank (definitely NOT a Dragon mold).
Banshee3Actual
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New York, United States
Joined: February 07, 2007
KitMaker: 125 posts
Armorama: 118 posts
Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 05:19 PM UTC
Worst would have to be the Emhar Mk IV, I basically had to rebuild the guns, barbettes, secondary armament, exhaust, unditching rail, tracks.
mat
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Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 894 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 11:59 PM UTC
Amen,

I'm with you, I built it too. I remember using a lot of wire to replace all the grabhandles. I did not even bother to buy the Eduard set.
redcap
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: November 06, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 01:02 AM UTC
That's a bummer Felix but glad you have persevered!

As soon as it's finished some pics would be great..............and then you can relax with an enjoyable 'shake the box' 1/35 piece of Soviet Armour.

How about the DML 1/35 SU-76!!!!!!
ant88
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: January 27, 2005
KitMaker: 225 posts
Armorama: 176 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 01:38 AM UTC
I know this is your time to vent, lol, jk, but I have to say that while I am intreigued by AFV's kit choices I built my first kit by them last year and was totally dissapointed. I will never purchase another. Fit issues, inaccurate and more. I will only buy Tamiya and Dragon like I have for the last 35 or so years.
arpikaszabo
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Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: February 13, 2006
KitMaker: 674 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 02:16 AM UTC
Dear Felix,
I understand Your pain, I am building a Revell PZH2000. I restarted the build after I got the Bronco tracks ( A+ for the molding, fit and quality). The kit details are oversimplified, the fit is awful, the weldlines are raised oversized panel lines ( a real pain to remove), ahh its going to be so much work. Good luck in Your project,
Arpi
martyncrowther
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: September 12, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 02:17 AM UTC
Hi, I have built a couple of Zvesda kits. They are a little soft and have flash. I have had no problems with the build. Just a little extra work and they don't look too bad. The only trouble I had was with the Gaz truck wheels not fitting properly.

We wan't pictures!
Henk
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 07, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 02:27 AM UTC
On the other end of the scale 9and no use to your current predicament, I know), the Mercedes 4500 kits from Zvezda are superb. I built the basic cargo version a while back, and have another in the pipe line. I believe that the halftracks are equally good.

Generallly, the older kits are not as good as the newer ones. At least they make the effort to improve. Unlike a well known Japanese producer, where the hit and miss quality stays with the kit for ever.. and ever...

Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 02:31 AM UTC
I am assuming you built the BTR-80 and not the BTR-80A? The turret, at least, of the -A is very nicely done.

However, I know what you mean about the build. I have built a number of BTR-80 vehicles and have had some of the problems you have had. The mating of the hull pieces and the suspension I do not remember having trouble with, but I did not have to fight the instructions either.

As stated, we want pictures!

In the future, if you do another BTR, I would find a DML kit (or shanghai dragon) or at least get a copy of the instructions from one.
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 03:29 AM UTC
It looks like Zvezda's BTR-80A might be better :
http://www.internetmodeler.com/2007/january/armor/zvezda_btr80a_review.php

Here's a review of DML's BTR-80 :
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/builds/dml/build_dml_3511.shtml

HTH

Frenchy
martyncrowther
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 04:52 AM UTC
Thanks for Posting Frenchy, great help!
Removed by original poster on 11/24/09 - 18:46:46 (GMT).
JimboHUN
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 06:34 AM UTC
Well, I had the BTR-80A version, but I sold it. I've just realised that I hate Zvezda kits. Plastic is soft, packaging is bad, many parts are broken.

You may find some great reference pics here:

http://www.mhrfweb.extra.hu/joomlaTEL/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=56&lang=en

Tha hatces are what I consider the most annoying. It can be built into a nice kit, but a prefer tracked vehicles...

http://makettinfo.hu/forum/image.php?img_url=upload%2F200806%2Fkep_012.jpg#image_55797

Some "details" above.

Chhers,
Adam
Boggie
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Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 06:46 AM UTC
Well I'm knee deep in my Zveda's BTR 70 right now so I'll watch this thread with interest. I have the 80 ready to go as well.
Bill
Beaver2206
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: November 03, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 07:05 AM UTC
Have a couple of Zvezda kits also, the reason they are still to be built can be found in the comments above.

A gripe as much as a warning to others.

Stu
catman31
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Ohio, United States
Joined: September 12, 2005
KitMaker: 166 posts
Armorama: 142 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 02:32 PM UTC
So I got the base coat on with a three tone camouflage based on an "unknown unit" from the Bison decal sheet - the one with "Team Special" on both sides of the vehicle.

I hear you about the pictures and would love to oblige, however, I have a digital camera with x10 zoom and I can't figure out how to get close-up shots that look focused. Maybe a lighting thing? Additionally, if I do get some pictures that look good, how do I post them? I have never attempted this before. Help?

A good paint job makes most models come alive and I think, so far, this is the case - fortunately.

Next step - filters, then washes, etc. I am a big fan of Mig and Spanish modeling so I tend to really weather my models. Hey, they are my canvas, what can I say?

The wheels are done and look pretty good, too. Weathering is my favorite part of modeling and I am looking forward to getting the BTR-80 in "winter/dirt mode."

-Felix
53Buick
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Illinois, United States
Joined: July 11, 2005
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Posted: Monday, December 07, 2009 - 06:19 AM UTC
Man you all scared me about my BTR-80. Looked at mine and dry fit. Fits great. Maybe a warped kit? Mine's fine, Ryan
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