Hi All, I'm trying to gather accurate reference material for my T-80U(M) build and I wondered if anyone had any good walkarounds for this tank?
I've found lots of T-80BV and T-80B walkarounds and some T-80UD ones but I can't seem to find any that cover the U(M)...
It would be really helpful as the instructions I'm following from SP Designs are rather vague.
Thanks!
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T-80U(M) Walkarounds?
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 12:49 AM UTC
arpikaszabo
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Posted: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 04:06 AM UTC
Hello, check out this one http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/yuri_pasholok/t-80u/
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 05:06 AM UTC
Thanks thats great! Very helpful!
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 05:23 AM UTC
Does anyone know where these photos were taken? Some kind of show obviously but I'm not sure if its a trade show or an army exhibit / open event? I notice that kids are around so I'm thinking it might be from some kind of Army Day or something?
Also I wonder if anyone knows if T-80U's were/are fitted with mine clearing equipment? I've seen some photos of T-80B with KMT-6 gear but I'm not sure if more recent models of T-80U use them also? I don't want to stick one on and get it wrong! Since I'm looking to build a T-80U(M)2005 model I'm not sure what use these tanks have actually had in the Russian Army or if they are prototypes like the T-80UE.
Also I wonder if anyone knows if T-80U's were/are fitted with mine clearing equipment? I've seen some photos of T-80B with KMT-6 gear but I'm not sure if more recent models of T-80U use them also? I don't want to stick one on and get it wrong! Since I'm looking to build a T-80U(M)2005 model I'm not sure what use these tanks have actually had in the Russian Army or if they are prototypes like the T-80UE.
arpikaszabo
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Posted: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 09:18 AM UTC
The Cypriot army has some T80Us with shtora emitters, I am not sure of the exact name of the model. I dont know if the Russian army has any of them fielded. I have some photos of the cypriot version somewhere, if intersted pm me.
Jacques
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Posted: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 02:15 PM UTC
T-80U(M) is a T-80U m88 with a new wind sensor, a new layout for the some of the stowage, and the LACK of the IR illuminator. This version is in service with the Russian Army in limited numbers (sorry, I do not know how many) and does NOT have the Shtora emitters.
The T-80UE is the version of the T-80 with the ARENA active self-defense system.
Jon, what parts of the instructions are vague that you need help with...I can probably help.
The T-80UE is the version of the T-80 with the ARENA active self-defense system.
Jon, what parts of the instructions are vague that you need help with...I can probably help.
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 12:31 AM UTC
Hi Jacques
Some of Sergei's illustrations aren't so clear. For example on the Turret top side. Part 77 and 6 form a part used on the M05 variant (some kind of sensor I guess) but it is shown in isolation from the turret and there is no indication where this part goes. Also on the same drawing there is the following text (M92/95 C97/98) with an arrow but no picture of any part. What does M92/95 C97/98 refer to?
Also on part 1 upper hull assembly without reference photos its quite hard to work out which fuel tank goes on which side as both parts 47 and 46 arent numbered on the part/sprue. Parts 66 and 67 are also a little vague, only one part is shown on one side and it says 66/67 I assume that these flaps go on both sides? However the diagram only shows one side, which makes it look like both parts go on top of each other and then fit onto the right fender.
Also the photos used as examples don't really illustrate the differences between the variants very clearly. M95 photo doesnt really look that different to the M2005 photo. As theres no accompaning text you have to rely on the instruction drawings to work out the difference.
Sorry to bombard you, this is a great kit and its going to make a great tank for sure, but the instructions have really given me a hard time and I've had to refer to reference photos and walkarounds a lot the last few days.
Some of Sergei's illustrations aren't so clear. For example on the Turret top side. Part 77 and 6 form a part used on the M05 variant (some kind of sensor I guess) but it is shown in isolation from the turret and there is no indication where this part goes. Also on the same drawing there is the following text (M92/95 C97/98) with an arrow but no picture of any part. What does M92/95 C97/98 refer to?
Also on part 1 upper hull assembly without reference photos its quite hard to work out which fuel tank goes on which side as both parts 47 and 46 arent numbered on the part/sprue. Parts 66 and 67 are also a little vague, only one part is shown on one side and it says 66/67 I assume that these flaps go on both sides? However the diagram only shows one side, which makes it look like both parts go on top of each other and then fit onto the right fender.
Also the photos used as examples don't really illustrate the differences between the variants very clearly. M95 photo doesnt really look that different to the M2005 photo. As theres no accompaning text you have to rely on the instruction drawings to work out the difference.
Sorry to bombard you, this is a great kit and its going to make a great tank for sure, but the instructions have really given me a hard time and I've had to refer to reference photos and walkarounds a lot the last few days.
bison126
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 12:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
T-80U(M) is a T-80U m88 with a new wind sensor, a new layout for the some of the stowage, and the LACK of the IR illuminator. This version is in service with the Russian Army in limited numbers (sorry, I do not know how many) and does NOT have the Shtora emitters.
Hello Jacques,
I've read/heard that some UK were fitted with the Shtora emitters.
To my knowledge, the UM is the one fitted with the Arena system or maybe I've misread the Concord book about T-80s.
How far am I right or wrong ?
Olivier
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 08:26 AM UTC
Hi Jacques, this walkaround seems to be a T-80U(M) m1995 variant, but it has an illuminator fitted to the front turret?
Any idea why that maybe? I've been using this for reference of my build but maybe i'm wrong on the designation?
Any idea why that maybe? I've been using this for reference of my build but maybe i'm wrong on the designation?
kruppw
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 03:10 PM UTC
Hey Jon The picture you are looking at is a T-80 UD mod. 95 and is correct to have the IR illuminator next to the main gun. The T-80 went through an upgrade program June of 1999 and had the IR lights removed and passive night vision installed which would make it a T-80 U(M). There’s a great book I just got in the mail today you may want to look into if you don’t already have it…..Russian armor volume 3, main battle tank T-80 by mikhail baryatinskiy. It has tons of info and pictures for the T-80 and explains more in detail of the serious. It also answer’s one of your questions about kmt-6 being installed on the T-80 and shows a picture of one.
Chris
Chris
kruppw
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 05:09 PM UTC
Hey Jon, slight correction to my last posting on the (M) part. I just sat down to read the book and the more I looked into it, the M was just a gerneric designation for when the vehicle was upgraded.......IE T-80u,ud,ue,uk. There how ever is a true T-80UM-1 BARS that mounts all the defensive antennas on it. But as far as a model 95 having the IR light, it is possible since night vision was part of the upgrade programs in 1999. So it could have both light or no light depending if it was upgraded or not. Hope this helps some
Chris
Chris
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 05:14 PM UTC
Even I am getting screwed up with the designators: (Off the cuff)
T-80 - Original concept of a T-64A turret with a new chassis.
T-80B - T-64B turret with redesigned chassis.
T-80U - T-80B chassis with redesigned turret and K-5 ERA incorporated in the design.
T-80UD - Diesel engine version
T-80U(M) - Modernization of T-80U tanks withremoval of the IR illuminator and a new cross wind sensor being paramount.
T-80UK - T-80U with Shtora
T-80UM1 - T-80U with Arena Active defense system.
T-80UE - T-80U with a better engine. (I am not sure on this)
That should cover it. Even Sergej screwed up initially with his designator being T-80UE for his T-80UM1.
Hope that helps.
T-80 - Original concept of a T-64A turret with a new chassis.
T-80B - T-64B turret with redesigned chassis.
T-80U - T-80B chassis with redesigned turret and K-5 ERA incorporated in the design.
T-80UD - Diesel engine version
T-80U(M) - Modernization of T-80U tanks withremoval of the IR illuminator and a new cross wind sensor being paramount.
T-80UK - T-80U with Shtora
T-80UM1 - T-80U with Arena Active defense system.
T-80UE - T-80U with a better engine. (I am not sure on this)
That should cover it. Even Sergej screwed up initially with his designator being T-80UE for his T-80UM1.
Hope that helps.
kruppw
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 05:19 PM UTC
And I thought it was bad enough trying to figure us equipment from WWII since we used just about all the same model numbers and date for everyhting.
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:17 PM UTC
Thanks guys, Chris I don't have that book but I have ordered it actually so I should get it soon. Glad to hear that its worth it. I have to admit I knew nothing about it before hand but I really liked the cover!
Jacques thanks for your summary also, I admit it sure can be confusing. Any advice on those questions about the SP Designs instructions? Also I'm not sure where to put part 60, its some kind of grill or cover but its not shown on the walkaround I've been using or any other pictures I can find.
Look's like I'll be keep the IR searchlight off my build then.
Jacques thanks for your summary also, I admit it sure can be confusing. Any advice on those questions about the SP Designs instructions? Also I'm not sure where to put part 60, its some kind of grill or cover but its not shown on the walkaround I've been using or any other pictures I can find.
Look's like I'll be keep the IR searchlight off my build then.
Armorer
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Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 11:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Even I am getting screwed up with the designators: (Off the cuff)
T-80 - Original concept of a T-64A turret with a new chassis.
T-80B - T-64B turret with redesigned chassis.
T-80U - T-80B chassis with redesigned turret and K-5 ERA incorporated in the design.
T-80UD - Diesel engine version
T-80U(M) - Modernization of T-80U tanks withremoval of the IR illuminator and a new cross wind sensor being paramount.
T-80UK - T-80U with Shtora
T-80UM1 - T-80U with Arena Active defense system.
T-80UE - T-80U with a better engine. (I am not sure on this)
That should cover it. Even Sergej screwed up initially with his designator being T-80UE for his T-80UM1.
Hope that helps.
I'd better say that
T-80UK- Commanders version of the T-80UM with a Shtora Soft Kill
And T-80UE is a really something strange, some people say that it's a T-80B with a T-80UD turret(Which are not in the RA service any more), and some say thet it's a T-80B with the Relict ERA
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Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 - 01:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Jon The picture you are looking at is a T-80 UD mod. 95
Chris looking through the walkaround I don't think this is a UD it doesnt have the Diesel engine deck. It seems to have the regular gas turbine deck with the two small grills.
kruppw
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Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 - 04:33 AM UTC
Hey Jon, you maybe right about the engine deck. With out looking at the deck it had to tell the defference between deisel and turbine equip tanks. I just looked closed at the walkaround and compaied them to the book I have.
Chris
Chris
kruppw
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Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 - 04:39 AM UTC
Oh by the way Jon, which SP Design kit do you have? I currently have the UDK and UD mod. 91 and I have to say I'm not too impressed with the UDK kit. It's seems to be a direct copy of the skif kit with a few improvements here and there and the casting is horrible to boot. But on the other the 91 kit is far much better in quality. I'm just curious as to which kit you have as I want to build more of the T-80's.
Chris
Chris
Jacques
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Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 - 05:09 PM UTC
John - I will not be able to get to it until Sunday earliest. We (my club) are doing our first show as a AMPS chapter tomorrow. So a bit busy!
The tank on the Prime Portal page is a T-80U with the BROD-M wading trunk over the engine screens.
Andrew - Your photo is of the T-80BM Rogatka upgrade proposal that supposedly was cancelled. No idea if it had more than one prototype made.
Chris - No, the T-80UDK is not a direct copy...it is a improved casting, but is three generations older than the current piece that John is working with. It has a few simple changes that you could do to any T-80UD turret if you wanted a -UDK. Sergej did this conversion YEARS ago for the SKIF kit but it is long OOP. And yes, compared to what is out now, it is not a great casting. John is using kit 221, but check the SAAMMODELS T-80 webpage for the current kits and conversions.
The tank on the Prime Portal page is a T-80U with the BROD-M wading trunk over the engine screens.
Andrew - Your photo is of the T-80BM Rogatka upgrade proposal that supposedly was cancelled. No idea if it had more than one prototype made.
Chris - No, the T-80UDK is not a direct copy...it is a improved casting, but is three generations older than the current piece that John is working with. It has a few simple changes that you could do to any T-80UD turret if you wanted a -UDK. Sergej did this conversion YEARS ago for the SKIF kit but it is long OOP. And yes, compared to what is out now, it is not a great casting. John is using kit 221, but check the SAAMMODELS T-80 webpage for the current kits and conversions.
kruppw
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Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 - 05:28 PM UTC
Sweet thanks for the info, I just got in the skif UD kit today and compaired that parts to the SP converision. It is going to need some improvements on it. I was looking into getting the same kit Jon has was just wondering if it's any good and I would like to have a turbine powered verision in my collection
Chris
Chris
Bratushka
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Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 - 05:36 PM UTC
I have a T-80U as well by Zvezda which I understand is a re-box of Revell which is a re-box of a Dragon. I almost bailed on the project after reading another thread here on the inadequacies of those kits, primarily that the hull sections don't fit together over the tracks.Since you have the SP kit I gather you are aware of all that.
After a bit more research and deciding i could save the project I bought the SP Designs T-80U #216 resin conversion/upgrade kit. which is superb. I am going to replace the tracks with AM ones which were back-ordered when I got the conversion. I had read that the barrel in the conversion is too big so an Aber or other AM barrel is on my shopping list as well as an Eduard PE set. I just wanted a representative build for a modern Russian tank rather than a specific version. My overall modeling goal is showing how armor progressed over the years with emphasis on the WWII era. I think the most current Russian tank is a T-95. The big temptation would be to build a Black Eagle!
Something else was mentioned in regards to using the lower hull from a Skif T-80 kit to get the correct suspension height. I am not sure if this was a brand of model or what, but I couldn't find anything else about it. Are you aware of what this may allude to? I know very little about post WWII Russian armor. Or anybody else's for that matter!
The tracks and conversion came from Historica Books and he has several different T-80 conversions and upgrades there so you may want to check him out. His prices are competitive as well. The web site is here: http://www.historicahobbies.com/ I offer this information for any others thinking about building this tank.
He also has a lot of the tankograd books so you may find something there.
Can you post back about what other goodies you use in the build?
Hope this is of some help to you and others.
After a bit more research and deciding i could save the project I bought the SP Designs T-80U #216 resin conversion/upgrade kit. which is superb. I am going to replace the tracks with AM ones which were back-ordered when I got the conversion. I had read that the barrel in the conversion is too big so an Aber or other AM barrel is on my shopping list as well as an Eduard PE set. I just wanted a representative build for a modern Russian tank rather than a specific version. My overall modeling goal is showing how armor progressed over the years with emphasis on the WWII era. I think the most current Russian tank is a T-95. The big temptation would be to build a Black Eagle!
Something else was mentioned in regards to using the lower hull from a Skif T-80 kit to get the correct suspension height. I am not sure if this was a brand of model or what, but I couldn't find anything else about it. Are you aware of what this may allude to? I know very little about post WWII Russian armor. Or anybody else's for that matter!
The tracks and conversion came from Historica Books and he has several different T-80 conversions and upgrades there so you may want to check him out. His prices are competitive as well. The web site is here: http://www.historicahobbies.com/ I offer this information for any others thinking about building this tank.
He also has a lot of the tankograd books so you may find something there.
Can you post back about what other goodies you use in the build?
Hope this is of some help to you and others.
DamianR
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Posted: Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 12:27 AM UTC
Hello, I'm new to this site, and maybe soon I will start to make my first models. But now I will stay only with discussion about modern AFV's.
Never fielded, and officialy designation was T-80UM IRCC, not T-80U(M).
It is commander tank variant, dunno if all of them are fitted with TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1.
One or more prototypes, never fielded.
IRCC it was export variant, but probably non of them solded, it seems that T-80U's were sold instead, these T-80U's were for Russian Army, but were never purchased by goverment and they just sit in factory storage.
T-80BM Rogatka was cancelled, like T-72BM Rogatka.
Instead T-72B's will be upgraded to simple T-72BA upgrade, same upgrade was considered for T-80B's, but idea was probably scrapped. T-72B's are just overall better tanks, better armored, more reliabale etc.
T-95 program was cancelled, there will be new program for universal chassis for new MBT (new T-95), IFV's etc. but development phase will take another years. Object-640 (this is correct designation) or Black Eagle (facory marketing designation) was only demonstrator, to be more precise two demonstrators, one was simple T-80U hull with turret mockup, second was new, longer hull and turret prototype, but without internal systems.
Quoted Text
T-80U(M) - Modernization of T-80U tanks withremoval of the IR illuminator and a new cross wind sensor being paramount.
Never fielded, and officialy designation was T-80UM IRCC, not T-80U(M).
Quoted Text
T-80UK - T-80U with Shtora
It is commander tank variant, dunno if all of them are fitted with TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1.
Quoted Text
T-80UM1 - T-80U with Arena Active defense system.
One or more prototypes, never fielded.
Quoted Text
T-80UE - T-80U with a better engine. (I am not sure on this)
IRCC it was export variant, but probably non of them solded, it seems that T-80U's were sold instead, these T-80U's were for Russian Army, but were never purchased by goverment and they just sit in factory storage.
T-80BM Rogatka was cancelled, like T-72BM Rogatka.
Instead T-72B's will be upgraded to simple T-72BA upgrade, same upgrade was considered for T-80B's, but idea was probably scrapped. T-72B's are just overall better tanks, better armored, more reliabale etc.
Quoted Text
I think the most current Russian tank is a T-95. The big temptation would be to build a Black Eagle!
T-95 program was cancelled, there will be new program for universal chassis for new MBT (new T-95), IFV's etc. but development phase will take another years. Object-640 (this is correct designation) or Black Eagle (facory marketing designation) was only demonstrator, to be more precise two demonstrators, one was simple T-80U hull with turret mockup, second was new, longer hull and turret prototype, but without internal systems.
Bratushka
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Posted: Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 12:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think the most current Russian tank is a T-95. The big temptation would be to build a Black Eagle!
Quoted Text
T-95 program was cancelled, there will be new program for universal chassis for new MBT (new T-95), IFV's etc. but development phase will take another years. Object-640 (this is correct designation) or Black Eagle (facory marketing designation) was only demonstrator, to be more precise two demonstrators, one was simple T-80U hull with turret mockup, second was new, longer hull and turret prototype, but without internal systems.
The article I read was dated about the T-95. It said the project was still being developed so I thought it was probably done by now. I have a friend from Vladivistok but he has little interest in modern armor but helps me much with WWII AFVs. Modern armor is not my strong point.
I knew the 640 project number was the true name for the Black Eagle, but I like the sound of the Black Eagle name. I also knew it was a prototype/mock up turret on a T-80 hull and the other was an empty shell. It still has a very aggressive and modern look to it. What is the current most used and newest Russian main tank? Are there still many T-72s in service?
Didn't one of the T-80s have a turbine engine or something unique like that? I know when I was looking at the SP conversion kits for the T-80 there were about 3 or 4 of them, but not much information about the vehicle they were to represent. I ordered a couple books on the T-80s and a couple about other Russian armor earlier this evening from Amazon to help me when I am ready to build this model and the other WWII era Russian armor kits I have. One is the same book Christopher Ager showed in his post above.
Do you know if the Chinese are currently using a Russian based main battle tank that they have modified? I seem to remember reading something like that while looking up information about the T-80. If they use their own tank do you know what it is called?
Thank you for your information and welcome to Armorama.
DamianR
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Posted: Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 01:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The article I read was dated about the T-95. It said the project was still being developed so I thought it was probably done by now. I have a friend from Vladivistok but he has little interest in modern armor but helps me much with WWII AFVs. Modern armor is not my strong point.
As I said, T-95 (Object-195) projecct is dead. Russian Minister of Defence right hand, Popovkin said so, other projects were also cancelled, like Coalition-SV SPH, BMD-4M, BMPT.
Quoted Text
I knew the 640 project number was the true name for the Black Eagle, but I like the sound of the Black Eagle name. I also knew it was a prototype/mock up turret on a T-80 hull and the other was an empty shell. It still has a very aggressive and modern look to it. What is the current most used and newest Russian main tank? Are there still many T-72s in service?
Object-640 have some interesting designs solutions, like rear bustle ammo magazine and mechanical loading system in detachabale module (this was something like eee... ammo clip for rifle) and Kaktus modular armor (it was something like, hybrid heavy ERA with passive armor).
The most used tank in Russian Army is T-72B/BW (in English it will be T-72BV) and T-80B/BW (T-80BV). The most modern is T-90A (do not confuse it with older T-90, in fact, this are two different tanks, T-90A have completely new turret, derivative from Object-187, and a bit redsigned hull). Soon should be also fielded T-90M with new turret (TC cuppola was removed and replaced by simple hatch with vision blocks, it have added CITV with PK/PKM GPMG integrated with it, hull and turret have Relikt ERA + turret have small bustle in the rear for new comm systems, BMS and CITV assembly).
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Didn't one of the T-80s have a turbine engine or something unique like that? I know when I was looking at the SP conversion kits for the T-80 there were about 3 or 4 of them, but not much information about the vehicle they were to represent. I ordered a couple books on the T-80s and a couple about other Russian armor earlier this evening from Amazon to help me when I am ready to build this model and the other WWII era Russian armor kits I have.
All T-80's besides T-80UD got Gas Turbine engine. The only Diesel powered variants are T-80UD and it further Ukrainian developments T-84U Oplot (fielded in very small numbers, about 10 IRCC), T-84-120 Yatagan (one demonstrator for Turkey, never fielded) and T-84U Oplot-M (new variant for Ukrainian Army, still in las development phase, still if it will be produced, it will be small numbers).
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Do you know if the Chinese are currently using a Russian based main battle tank that they have modified? I seem to remember reading something like that while looking up information about the T-80. If they use their own tank do you know what it is called?
PRC bought small numbers of T-72's and T-80's for test purpose only, non of them fielded. They based their tanks only slightly on Soviet tanks.
Basic MBT of PRC is ZTZ-96, ZTZ-96G, it is II+ gen. MBT, about 2300-2800 produced. Elite units get ZTZ-99, ZTZ-99G, ZTZ-99A, ZTZ-99A1 that is IIIrd. gen. MBT, slightly based on T-72. Soon there will be fielded ZTZ-99A2, it have noting common with older ZTZ-99's, it is based on ZTZ-80/88 and other export variants, like MBT-2000, to be more precise hull is based, turret is completely new. About 500 ZTZ-99's were fielded.
Rest of PRC tanks are old ZTZ-59/69 and their derivatives, felded in small numbers, probably no more than ~1500 of them.
But PRC designs are mostly flawed, with armor configuration like on Soviet tanks, they choose welded shape design of turret like on western tanks.
Side turret armor in Soviet and PRC designs was max 80mm thick, but soviet turret geometry made side armor covered by front armor up to 30-45 deegres from turret center line, so for typical tank vs tank combat side turret armor on sovet designs is not visible for enemy.
In the west side turret armor is thick from ~200-300mm (Leopard 2 series) up to ~350-400mm (like on M1 series or Challenger 2) multilayer laminate armor, so it gives preatty good protection with such deegres from turret center line (for 30-45 deegres of projectile hit it should give ~650-800mm).
So Chinese take Soviet armor thickness config with western turret design, so Chinese tanks turret is preatty much flawed design.
Bratushka
Indiana, United States
Joined: May 09, 2008
KitMaker: 1,019 posts
Armorama: 657 posts
Joined: May 09, 2008
KitMaker: 1,019 posts
Armorama: 657 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 02:10 AM UTC
Thanks again Damian! This is very useful information to me!