Hello, folks.

A quick newbie question.

I'm finishing up Dragon's JS-2, and am wondering if it would be appropriate for this kit to be wearing the recognition stripes on the turret. Were these stripes only applied in Berlin? Do you think an early version JS-2 would have even made it that far?

Thanks so much!

I've not seen one and I have a few books on the Stalin series. I'm not saying there isn't photographic proof. I've only seen the later roman nosed Stalins with the Berlin stripes.

Greg - A bit off topic, but which is the best all around JS reference book among the ones you've got?

Ok, that's kinda what I was thinking, too, as I hadn't been able to find any photos either.

Man... so I just get boring "green" huh? Did these early JS-2's use any form of air recognition? I gotta have some COLOR!

Guys, while I don't have any photographs of IS-2s with the white air recognition stripes, I do have several showing vehicles with the early 'broken nose' hull that are cited as in or around Berlin:

p55 (bottom) of Steve Zaloga's "Stalin's Heavy Tanks" from Concord

p13 of Wydawnictwo Militaria 306 shows a vehicle in Germany in the spring of 1945. 2nd Byelorussian Front though, so south of Berlin.

p37 (top) and p39 (top) of Wydawnictwo Militaria 306 show vehicles on exercise in 1947 and on parade in Minsk in 1946, suggesting that some vehicles survived the war in Soviet service.

At some early hulls survived into the 1950s and were upgraded to IS-2M standard. There is an IS-2 with an early hull preserved in Poland too.

The air recognition stripes on an early hull is certainly a plausible combination.

Cheers,

Neil

Thanks for the info, Neil. I may end up building another one of these monsters, and make sure that it's the later IS-2.

IS-2's (specifically the IS-122 and NOT the IS-85, as the Soviets called them for quite a while) would have had air recognition markings on them as they advanced West...and they were changed fairly often as the Germans copied the markings on their vehicles to keep the Red Air Force from pummeling them.

Berlin invasion Stripes are not the only markings Soviet tanks carried.

Well.... what other kinds of markings did they carry? I've been Google-ing every phrase I can think of.

Don't leave me in suspense here...

Bill, My main references book on th IS tank are the Wydawnictwo Militaria series....there are threre of them. I do have a few others, but these are the best. I think Neil mentioned one of them too. Great photos, drawings, profile drawings and color profiles. I buy all the Wydawnictwo Militaria books on Russian armor. There was a 3 or 4 on the KV and I think 5 on the T-34. I can't recommand them enough. I also have seen many of the broken nose (my personal IS favorite) post war......unfortunately I just have not seen any with the Berlin stripe.....but it is possible a few were there.

I agree that the eraly IS-122 "roman or Broken nose" would be a rarer sight by 1945, but not uncommon. The IS-85 was thought to have been taken out of service and regunned as soon as possible, yet several are known to have ended the war fighting in, I believe, Bulgaria.

So if you want a uniquely marked IS-122 early, do so. It is plausable if not photographed. If you want to work directly from a photo, that will take a LOT of research. Also, when doing searches, try using cyrillic as well as latin lettering.

Finally, both the Concord book on "Stalin's heavies..." and Soviet medium Tanks show various Soviet vehicles at the end of the war with differing air recognition markings. There is a SU-85M with a white band around the casement that is almost gone and a replacement marking of a large filled white triangle on the right front side. There is a Picture of a ISU-152 with a braod whtie stripe down the center from front to back. It is plausable that units associated with those vehicles would have the same markings for ID. And a IS-122 could be one of them.

Jacques-

It seems that what people take as "gospel" in the armor world, almost always comes back to be untrue. It would seem in the case of the IS-85 that the Soviets simply had to get tanks to the front. Apparently some just didn't make it back for the conversions!

I think what I'll do with my IS-122 is what you suggested toward the end of your reply-- a white stripe down the center of the vehicle. It won't be difficult to do, and will make the scheme rather interesting, I think. Not that I don't appreciate Soviet armor in all shades of green, but I just pictured a bit more for this particular piece.

Also, thanks for the reply. As a newcomer to armor, (and a poor musician!) I (hopefully not unfairly) rely on those of you who have been at this for awhile to help here and there. I'm sure these kinds of questions come up quite a bit, and I appreciate you taking the time to help me out! In the future I plan on purchasing a few Russian armor reference books, reading up a bit, and getting to know some of these vehicles a little better. Maybe then I can help some other newcomer!

Thanks again!

No problem. Glad to help. If you need some advice when it comes to books, drop a note and there are several people who will be able to help you better than I on that, depending on the subject.

As for authenticity...well, there is "gospel", there is "fiction", and somewhere in the middle is reality and most often, "fun". It does not hurt to "color a bit outside the lines" so -to-speak...like the Aircraft ID markings. So there is no actual picture of it, but you can tehn sit and explain things a bit to interested people and get into a conversation about what was known, waht could have been, and what probably was not going on. And I have learned a lot of things this way that I never would have in others. It can be a draw in for other interested people.

As for designations, technically both are correct...as some point in, I believe, late '43 or 1944 they changed the "official" designators of the tanks from IS-85 to IS-1, IS-122 to IS-2 and the later mod (non-roman nose) to IS-2m, etc... the only thing for sure is that there never was a JS-2...only a IS-2. There is no J in the Cyrillic alphabet.

Have fun.