Hey guys, hope you had a good Remembrance Day. I thought it a fitting day to start a build of a Canadian WWII subject matter... Tamiya's Quad Gun Tractor with 25 Pdr.


This is actually my first military model so I'm hoping to get a few tips from the guys who know this subject better than I. I won't display any in box pics. as Brian Culbertson (BigfootV) has already did a review on the Quad and the 25Pdr. with pictures included.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3966
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3959
I'll start posting some pics. when I actually get something started.

The Canadian decals represent the 1st Canadian Infantry division. I believe this to be Italy 1943? The instructions also say to paint dark green. Is this correct? And if so, would that be an olive drab or more of a darker green? Thanks.

I'm having a ball with this thing. There is a fair amount of seams to clean up but the chassis goes together very nicely. It may be an old kit but it still has quite adequate detail as far as the chassis is concerned. If the rest goes together this well I'll be a happy camper.

Sorry I didn't take more pictures as I was building it but once started it is easy to just keep going. You'll notice I fixed the wheels in a turned position for added interest. If you have any comments or questions please do. I still need a little help with colour as the chassis should be painted soon. I'm guessing the body, chassis and interior would be all the same colour. I've heard of the Canadian Quads being a khaki, brown,olive drab, dark green so if anybody can shed some light on this it'd be appreciated. If nobdy can help me here I'll just go with green. I heard someone once say that adding a bit of dark green to olive drab works well for Canadian WWII armour.




Next will be that cute little flathead. It looks to me from pics. I've seen that black is common for these. Thanks for looking.

Looking good so far mate. I have this kit in the stash somewhere and will have to build it one day!

It was my FIRST military model when i was a child...
I did an AWFUL work, but it was a great fun for me....

You'll surely do better than me

Cheers

Great when you get on a roll like that. You're making great progress and I look forward to more.

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm working on the engine but am a little stuck. I need a few reference pictures in order to detail this cute little Flathead. ***Does anybody have any pics. of the original flatheads found in these Ford Quads?***

I'm also trying to decide on engine colour. I thought black but I'm not so sure now. I think it may also have been grey, green or metallic gery per instructions.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Alright, I know there probably aren't many of you out there that have the pics. I'm looking for so I did some more looking on the internet. I think I've got it narrowed downa bit. I'm going with dark green for the engine colour. This seems to be a typical colour for a Ford truck Flathead around 1942.

Here is a pick of the engine so far but I've got more to do. I'll post a pic later when I get some more done. For now, it's a great day and I'm going mountain biking!

hi here's a couple of pics of my units FAT and 25 pdr





these were taken on Remembrance Day

if you can wait a few days i can get pics of the engine compartment when i'm into work next.

p.s. in the Cdn army we called them FAT's (Field Artillery Tractors)

Look forward to develpments.

Al

Thanks Ian. Your FAT looks like it is a khaki colour. Is this right or is it more green in person?

I noticed yours is a GM so the engine would be different than the Ford Fat I'm building.

That is a mighty mine machine though. You must have a ball with that thing! I thinks it's great that guys like you are preserving these old Canadian war machines.

yes it is khaki as in the pic. i noticed the chevy sign in the pic after i posted, if you want i can still take pics of the engine for comparison sake.
wish i could take credit for the restore, but my regimental museum received funds from the feds as a millinenum project to do the restore.

Thanks Ian, do you know if this was generally the colour they were? I've seen some that were that typical green you see on alot of Canadian WWII vehicles. Then again you see some that are brown. Maybe it depends on where they were serving. I believe the decals in my Tamyia kit places the Quad in Italy.

I think the engine is pretty much done.



I wanted to add some extra detail. So I thinned the fan belt, wired it, added a coil and an oil filter. I also made an air filter because I did not see anything like the one that comes with the kit anywhere. I just scratched a generic one.

The colour completely depends upon where the vehicle is serving.

For service in Sicily and the early part of the Italian campaign, you can get away with Light Stone (Desert Yellow). By the time Italy was well underway (or perhaps in the pause between sicily and italy) a lot of vehicles were repainted in a Light Mud and Black scheme. Light mud is an odd greenish grey, almost field grey sort of colour. These vehicles would still have light stone interiors & undersides. By later in the campaign many of these old No 12 cab vehicles would have been replaced with the later No 13 cab FATs like the Italeri FAT kit.

The No 12 cab FAT could be found right to the end of the war, but in decreasing numbers as they went out of service and were replaced. As far as I have seen, most Cdn units in NW Europe went ashore with the later No 13 cap FAT, so your finishing options are limited to Sicily and Italy (although it must be said that some No 12 cabs might have lasted into the spring of 1945 when 1st Cdn Inf Div was shipped off the Holland. In that case the vehicle would be painted in SCC15 Olive Drab (the UK version of the American colour).

The colour photos provided of the surviving Chev No 12 cab FAT are for a unit that served in NW Europe. It is unlikely that that unit had the No 12 cab FATS in Europe (but I'd love to be proved wrong) as by the time the unit was being equipped in England in 1942 the No 13 cab was more prevalent pus most of the invasion units got newer equipment before the landings which would have definitely been No 13 cab vehicles.

HTH

Paul

You certainly are full of information! Thanks Paul, I appreciate your help. The decals for this kit appear to be for the 1st Cdn Infantry Division, 2nd Field Regiment. As far as I can see they would have been in Sicily at least before moving on. So I suppose the Desert Yellow would be appropriate. I could probably also go with the light mud and black which would be a camo scheme I presume? Unless anybody can prove this wrong, perhaps I'll stick with the Desert Yellow. Tamiya makes a Desert Yellow that is not hard to find and it may also serve as some contrast for future builds in which green will be quite common.

Oh, and would the 25 pdr be the same Desert Yellow?

Working on the interior. Very simple with very little cleanup. The seats are only in three pieces each and the only cleanup is where they attached to the sprue. I will paint the seats separately but the rest will all be done together. I believe only the guages and shifter knobs will need touching up.

Excellent work on the engine, coming along nciely.

Al

Most people who know me will tell you I'm full of something, that's for sure!



Yes, 1st Cdn Inf Div landed in Sicily before moving into Italy proper.



You could use the Light Mud & Black, but it definitely would be for a period later in the Italian campaign, certainly by Dec 1943, the Ortona time frame.


Tamiya's desert yellow isn't a great match for the proper Light Stone. A good mix for Light stone come from this post on Missing Links:

BS 61 Light Stone

BS 61 Light Stone as used from 1940 till 1943.

Mix: 7 pts XF2 + 2 pts XF59 + 2 pts XF3.

The result may shock some modellers but it is just slightly lighter than my 1930 sample, certainly near enough. Light Stone 61 is yellow. The railways colour is buff, it was BS.58 Light Buff or Deep Cream 53 used as an interior colours and Humbrol used to have buff in their railways colour range eons ago, like pre-authentics. Some military modellers used it on desert vehicles back then.



Yes, the 25 pdr & limber would be Light Stone (not desert yellow)

Note: Some units had purely Light Stone vehicles and some had Light stone with a dark brown (SCC1A) disruptive pattern. These look much more interesting, but you need to see if you can find a photo to verify that 2nd Field was so camouflaged.

Paul

Thanks again Paul. I think I can handle mixing those colours for the Light Stone. I wouldn't know where to look to see if they used pure Light Stone or the dark brown camo scheme. I've seen other models done both ways.

I was thinking about redoing the hinges so I was wondering if Ian (or anybody else) has a good picture of the door hinges?

I redid the hinges. Just simply moved the over with half round. Then filled the sink holes in the inside of the doors and added a bar.





I also started to work on the 25 PDR. I believe there is more to this than the Ford Quad.



It gives you the choice of a small extension for the end of the barrel or a muzzle brake. Seeing how the muzzle brake is a later addition for the 25 PDR I think I'll just go with the small extension (or whatever you call it). I will have to scratch one as the kit piece is not satisfactory.

This thing is almost ready for primer. I was thinking about adding maybe a little dent in a fender or door. But, I don't know if that is practical. I don't think these vehicles were used to crash through things like a tank. Nor would they probably have been used much in an urban setting. I suppose they would have blazed their own trails a time or two for a certain vantage point however .



I wanted to put radiator hoses on the engine once assembled. The rad hoses are one of the obvious things on a Flathead Ford. So I scratched a radiator. This one is taken from a 40 Ford. I had to guess here as I've no engine compartment pics. of a Ford Quad.



The gun is getting close to completion as well.



This is a dandy little kit considering it is almost as old as I am.

Dont forget you must also take off remove the countreweight just in front of the breech as this was only fitted to those ones with the double baffle muzle brake.
If only I could get my photos to down load on here

upload them to http://imgur.com/ and post a link...

Thanks David for the advice. I'm not sure what the countreweight looks like as I know practically nothing about guns. Maybe you can tell me if I made the right decision on leaving off the muzzle brake. I thinking this vehicle is being operated in 1943.Thanks

A mid-1943 gun would likely not have the counterweight. They started to show un on late 1943 and most units switched over in 1944.

The counterweight is the inverted U shaped block of steel immediately in front of the breech. The breech is the block of steel at the very back of the gun where the shells go in. The counterweight has three bolts on either site and a flat top surface.

I can tell you from experience it is a stone cold b*tch to remove that block while also leaving the barrel in an acceptably state. It shoud be done prior to gluing the two hales together, but if the halves are together, it's just more difficult. I used a dremel to get rid of most of the excessal and then scraped the tube down to get the shape both correct and mostly smooth. Then a lot of work with a flexifile after gluing the two halves to gether to finish off the shape and make it look continuous and smooth.

Paul