Happy Modelling, -zon
Hosted by Darren Baker
Red Rain
zontar
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
Armorama: 1,557 posts
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 - 12:14 PM UTC
That was my concern about the rubberized cork, but one of the things you learn from living on an island is to work with what you can get. Consequently, I'm extra thankful for Bruce's tip on using flooring tiles, because now I probably have another source for cork at all, rather than just the automotive stuff.
Happy Modelling, -zon
Happy Modelling, -zon
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 - 12:39 PM UTC
i had a bit of trouble find exactly what i wanted for cork so i'm glad that i can pass this along.
when we were on the big island we had brought a multi-fuel camping stove and easily found white gas at a hardware store. the store owner said he had tons of europeans coming in asking for the fancy pressurized fuel canisters for their stoves, which he didn't stock.
he had to tell them what a pain it was to ship that stuff in by air (which it can't really) and how this was an "island" so come prepared for island life... meaning not everything will be available.
the internet hobby stores must be a blessing. cheers, bd.
when we were on the big island we had brought a multi-fuel camping stove and easily found white gas at a hardware store. the store owner said he had tons of europeans coming in asking for the fancy pressurized fuel canisters for their stoves, which he didn't stock.
he had to tell them what a pain it was to ship that stuff in by air (which it can't really) and how this was an "island" so come prepared for island life... meaning not everything will be available.
the internet hobby stores must be a blessing. cheers, bd.
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 04:38 AM UTC
It's interesting to see things like that happen...
I know I'm backtrackig a little here, but I had a few questions about the Hairspray Technique you used on the OT-34. What type/brand of hairspray did you use Bruce? What type of brush did you use? And lastly, what type of scrubbing technique did you use with it?
I'm looking to apply this technique to an IL-2 that I am trying to finish up, but not sure that it's going to work. Also my airbrush is out of commision for the moment, so I'm going to have to use spray cans...
I know I'm backtrackig a little here, but I had a few questions about the Hairspray Technique you used on the OT-34. What type/brand of hairspray did you use Bruce? What type of brush did you use? And lastly, what type of scrubbing technique did you use with it?
I'm looking to apply this technique to an IL-2 that I am trying to finish up, but not sure that it's going to work. Also my airbrush is out of commision for the moment, so I'm going to have to use spray cans...
zontar
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 07:28 AM UTC
Yes, internet stores are a blessing, although you have to be mindful of shipping costs. The hobby stores are pretty good, but on some other items we've been hit with $35-$50 to ship a $20 item, then you get the box and the actual shipping cost was $7. Doesn't make sense. I also have to be mindful that they will ship liquid cement and other "hazardous" things. Some will, some wont.
Funny about the camping stove. I have one of those European ones that I bought before moving here, and yes, you can not get fuel for it here. White gas and the regular Coleman type propanes are available though. It is actually a pain to get a lot of these things by air, because certain carriers won't put it on their airplanes (UPS and some other private air freighters), and the shipper choses the carrier. It's also tricky to get it by ship. Either you need to buy a whole shipping containers worth, or be part of a distribution system that will put it in with other stuff. We also have this problem with ammuntion. The break point on getting ammo shipped in is about $10,000 worth of product. Although it'd be fun to have that much ammo, it's hard to find an extra 10k in the wallet. LOL.
Happy Modelling, -zon
Funny about the camping stove. I have one of those European ones that I bought before moving here, and yes, you can not get fuel for it here. White gas and the regular Coleman type propanes are available though. It is actually a pain to get a lot of these things by air, because certain carriers won't put it on their airplanes (UPS and some other private air freighters), and the shipper choses the carrier. It's also tricky to get it by ship. Either you need to buy a whole shipping containers worth, or be part of a distribution system that will put it in with other stuff. We also have this problem with ammuntion. The break point on getting ammo shipped in is about $10,000 worth of product. Although it'd be fun to have that much ammo, it's hard to find an extra 10k in the wallet. LOL.
Happy Modelling, -zon
andyevans
Joined: October 04, 2008
KitMaker: 369 posts
Armorama: 249 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 07:46 AM UTC
Bruce,
Appreciate the help, thanks for explaining it. I will give your technique a try, probably the fact I was trying to cut through in one go didn't help.
Keep up the good work !
Andy
Appreciate the help, thanks for explaining it. I will give your technique a try, probably the fact I was trying to cut through in one go didn't help.
Keep up the good work !
Andy
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
Armorama: 753 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 02:00 PM UTC
glad that the info was useful and look forward to seeing your next project guys. shipping is wonky for all of us but there are so many goodies online.
the hairspray i bought is called "Finesse" and it may be a brand made by the local supermarket... it was the cheapest, lamest brand which i figured would have the least "hold" of anything else. also it cost $1.29 CDN so i couldn't go too wrong.
the spray can says Regular Hold and Self Adjusting, it also say "hairsrpay" misspelt right on the front LOL.
i used an old 0 round brush that i trimmed down to about 4 mm in length for scrubbing. for scrubbing method info just note that i start about 10 minutes after spraying the top acrylic colour. the first area i work on is the one that needs the most wear as the paint will come off easily. as you get down the process you find that after an hour it takes more warm water and more scrubbing to get the paint off. this is when i start doing the detail areas. when the paint is almost 2 hours dried i work on the areas that have very little wear. if the paint is quite hard to remove i read somewhere you can use rubbing alcohol but i have never run into this problem.
i hope this helps and look forward to seeing your IL-2 come together. cheers to one and all, bd.
Quoted Text
I had a few questions about the Hairspray Technique you used on the OT-34. What type/brand of hairspray did you use Bruce? What type of brush did you use? And lastly, what type of scrubbing technique did you use with it?
the hairspray i bought is called "Finesse" and it may be a brand made by the local supermarket... it was the cheapest, lamest brand which i figured would have the least "hold" of anything else. also it cost $1.29 CDN so i couldn't go too wrong.
the spray can says Regular Hold and Self Adjusting, it also say "hairsrpay" misspelt right on the front LOL.
i used an old 0 round brush that i trimmed down to about 4 mm in length for scrubbing. for scrubbing method info just note that i start about 10 minutes after spraying the top acrylic colour. the first area i work on is the one that needs the most wear as the paint will come off easily. as you get down the process you find that after an hour it takes more warm water and more scrubbing to get the paint off. this is when i start doing the detail areas. when the paint is almost 2 hours dried i work on the areas that have very little wear. if the paint is quite hard to remove i read somewhere you can use rubbing alcohol but i have never run into this problem.
i hope this helps and look forward to seeing your IL-2 come together. cheers to one and all, bd.
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 07:29 PM UTC
Thanks Bruce, and I think I understood everything LOL. We'll see when I actually get the hairspray and white on it. Way to go for el-cheapo products 
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
Armorama: 753 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 11:36 AM UTC
i see a new Red Rain diorama comes out just when i picked up my plaque after work today:
isn't that always the way things work LOL. i know the new project is titled Red Tide so i won't have to change the plaque with masking tape and a sharpie marker hehehe.
i got two plaques made for $10 each at a local awards/trophy shop, the other one is for my Never Abandoned dio. they can do plaques etched into all sorts of substrates using a laser which got my imagination running. i may get them to laser into old barn wood or a rusty piece of metal in the future. cool stuff.
cheers, bd.
isn't that always the way things work LOL. i know the new project is titled Red Tide so i won't have to change the plaque with masking tape and a sharpie marker hehehe.
i got two plaques made for $10 each at a local awards/trophy shop, the other one is for my Never Abandoned dio. they can do plaques etched into all sorts of substrates using a laser which got my imagination running. i may get them to laser into old barn wood or a rusty piece of metal in the future. cool stuff.
cheers, bd.
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 04:36 PM UTC
I've often thought about having those plaques made for some of my projects, but none of the businesses here seem to work with plastic. The metal materials get real expensive real fast. Maybe I need to check around again as things may have changed. Alternative materials open up all kinds of artistic possibilities 
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 05:47 AM UTC
the Red Rain factory construction is completed. i also finished the base painting of the cobblestone which i won't go any further with until i assemble the rubble:
i looked at this building as a organic sculpture, one that since i was making from scratch, could suit my design as best as possible. i am not a fan of straight cutaways on diorama buildings or when buildings look like bas-relief backdrops to scenes. i prefer when the shape of the structure as a whole creates a nice profile that compliments the overall diorama design.
i hope to have enough time this weekend to get most of the base colours painted on the building so it can dry while i start on the various groundwork elements later next week.
cheers, bd.
i looked at this building as a organic sculpture, one that since i was making from scratch, could suit my design as best as possible. i am not a fan of straight cutaways on diorama buildings or when buildings look like bas-relief backdrops to scenes. i prefer when the shape of the structure as a whole creates a nice profile that compliments the overall diorama design.
i hope to have enough time this weekend to get most of the base colours painted on the building so it can dry while i start on the various groundwork elements later next week.
cheers, bd.
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 06:06 AM UTC
That is just downright inspiring Bruce 
I'm not a big fan of straight cutaways or the bas relief style of buildings either.
I was wondering about the I-beams in your structure. Are those something that you have scratchbuilt, or do you by them in styrene?
I'm not a big fan of straight cutaways or the bas relief style of buildings either. I was wondering about the I-beams in your structure. Are those something that you have scratchbuilt, or do you by them in styrene?
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 06:07 AM UTC
WOW BRUCE!
Outstanding!
Outstanding!
VLADPANZER
Joined: December 20, 2010
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 549 posts
Posted: Friday, April 29, 2011 - 10:31 PM UTC
Bruce!!!
There are no words to describe the awesomeness and magnitude of this build! I love that factory it is just so beautifully done! What astonishes me so much is the speed of the build!!!
Regards,
There are no words to describe the awesomeness and magnitude of this build! I love that factory it is just so beautifully done! What astonishes me so much is the speed of the build!!!
Regards,
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 04:33 AM UTC
thanks guys for the great feedback. it took a month to build and there were some evenings that i really would have preferred to be doing a smaller project. but i just chugged along when i had the time and eventually it got done.
the I beams are Evergreen styrene strips as are the scratchbuilt windows and door frames. i also scratchbuilt the electrical sockets and wire from bits and pieces of styrene strips and rods.
painting this building will be an equally large job, been testing some methods on small wall rubble sections i made. we'll see how smoothly this portion moves forward.
cheers, bd.
the I beams are Evergreen styrene strips as are the scratchbuilt windows and door frames. i also scratchbuilt the electrical sockets and wire from bits and pieces of styrene strips and rods.
painting this building will be an equally large job, been testing some methods on small wall rubble sections i made. we'll see how smoothly this portion moves forward.
cheers, bd.
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 11:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What astonishes me so much is the speed of the build!!!
me too. I was a little worried about the thinness of the walls but now that you've corked both the inside and out the whole thing looks terrific Bruce
campbellbart
Joined: February 05, 2007
KitMaker: 121 posts
Armorama: 119 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 01:38 AM UTC
Nice work.
I'm looking forwards to seeing more progress on your dio. The cork work is great and makes me want to give it a try.
Bart
I'm looking forwards to seeing more progress on your dio. The cork work is great and makes me want to give it a try.
Bart
schnellerjan
Joined: April 24, 2011
KitMaker: 3 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 05:52 AM UTC
Man, what a fantastic work, i'm speachless!
One question! I'm from Germany, so could you please give me the internet-adress of the shop, where you've bought the cork?
An the cutter-thing.. is it just a modificated paper-cutter or something else?
Jan
One question! I'm from Germany, so could you please give me the internet-adress of the shop, where you've bought the cork?
An the cutter-thing.. is it just a modificated paper-cutter or something else?
Jan
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
Armorama: 753 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 12:42 PM UTC
thank you guys, glad you like the results so far. the foamcore is the same thickness as the cork i used so worked well for the edges.
Jan, i pm'd you some info. the Chopper was bought at www.spruebrothers.com awhile ago, seems stock for this item comes and goes.
as always, i look forward to seeing everyone's projects that might have been coaxed into motion from this diorama blog. slowly but surely this huge building will get painted. open invitation to come over to my place and grab a brush LOL. cheers, bd.
PS: as for the speed of the build. i don't know if this is how you guys do it but when i spending my time building/painting the models for a diorama i find that my mind ponders and plans how i'd do the next big step (in this case the factory build).
by the time i'm ready to start construction the whole building and all the tricks i will use to assemble it have already been done... though only in my brain. all i have to do is go through each step in reality avoiding all the pitfalls i have uncovered through my imaginary walkthrough.
i also just eyeballed the archway and window curves which saved lots of time since i got them symmetrical on the first attempt. there are lots of little cheats here and there that allow me to finetune or rough cut certain elements together. now if you asked me to have it all wired for lights and sound and be able to hover around the room i'd need a bit more time LOL.
Jan, i pm'd you some info. the Chopper was bought at www.spruebrothers.com awhile ago, seems stock for this item comes and goes.
as always, i look forward to seeing everyone's projects that might have been coaxed into motion from this diorama blog. slowly but surely this huge building will get painted. open invitation to come over to my place and grab a brush LOL. cheers, bd.
PS: as for the speed of the build. i don't know if this is how you guys do it but when i spending my time building/painting the models for a diorama i find that my mind ponders and plans how i'd do the next big step (in this case the factory build).
by the time i'm ready to start construction the whole building and all the tricks i will use to assemble it have already been done... though only in my brain. all i have to do is go through each step in reality avoiding all the pitfalls i have uncovered through my imaginary walkthrough.
i also just eyeballed the archway and window curves which saved lots of time since i got them symmetrical on the first attempt. there are lots of little cheats here and there that allow me to finetune or rough cut certain elements together. now if you asked me to have it all wired for lights and sound and be able to hover around the room i'd need a bit more time LOL.
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
Armorama: 4,817 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 04:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
PS: as for the speed of the build. i don't know if this is how you guys do it but when i spending my time building/painting the models for a diorama i find that my mind ponders and plans how i'd do the next big step (in this case the factory build).
by the time i'm ready to start construction the whole building and all the tricks i will use to assemble it have already been done... though only in my brain. all i have to do is go through each step in reality avoiding all the pitfalls i have uncovered through my imaginary walkthrough.
Working on getting to that point bud
zontar
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
Armorama: 1,557 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2011 - 06:18 PM UTC
Bruce: Awesome building!! I'm really digging the architectural integrity of the structure. Are you intending the floors to be concrete? If so, I would suggest some rebar remnants showing through at the busted edges. Most likely there would be rebar at about 12" (real size) on center in each direction, creating a grid.
Looking very good.
Happy Modelling, -zon
Looking very good.
Happy Modelling, -zon
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
Armorama: 753 posts
Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 03:16 AM UTC
strangely the pics i have as reference don't show any rebar on the broken concrete slab flooring. i have done the rebar on previous dioramas but for this one i don't think it was part of the construction. i have a dozen pics and none show any rebar in the concrete. lots of I beams though. maybe that's why they crumbled in a certain way. thanks for the headsup. cheers, bd.
zontar
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 1,646 posts
Armorama: 1,557 posts
Posted: Monday, May 02, 2011 - 12:36 PM UTC
Interesting. I think you are right in that the lack of rebar probably contributed greatly to the collapse of the slab, even with the I-beams. Good on you.
Happy Modelling, -zon
Happy Modelling, -zon
bill1
Joined: August 14, 2005
KitMaker: 3,938 posts
Armorama: 520 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 - 10:23 PM UTC
Yo Bruce,
Damn, I missed a lot here!!
What a progress...and what a job on the cork...stunning building!
This will be a damn good diorama...me like!
Chope on
Greetz Nico
Damn, I missed a lot here!!
What a progress...and what a job on the cork...stunning building!
This will be a damn good diorama...me like!
Chope on
Greetz Nico
Spiderfrommars
Joined: July 13, 2010
KitMaker: 3,845 posts
Armorama: 3,543 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 - 11:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Bruce: Awesome building!! I'm really digging the architectural integrity of the structure. Are you intending the floors to be concrete? If so, I would suggest some rebar remnants showing through at the busted edges. Most likely there would be rebar at about 12" (real size) on center in each direction, creating a grid.
Quoted Text
strangely the pics i have as reference don't show any rebar on the broken concrete slab flooring. i have done the rebar on previous dioramas but for this one i don't think it was part of the construction. i have a dozen pics and none show any rebar in the concrete. lots of I beams though. maybe that's why they crumbled in a certain way. thanks for the headsup. cheers, bd
Quoted Text
Interesting. I think you are right in that the lack of rebar probably contributed greatly to the collapse of the slab, even with the I-beams. Good on you.
Sorry for the off topic but as far as I know (I'm an architect) concrete actually can't resist without rebar. Furthermore in my humble opinion using the I-beams it didn't make sense in a concrete structure (why the russians didn't do the whole structure with concrete? Iron is a lot more expensive).
In my humble opinion most likely the factories had brick walls, iron beams (embedded in the thick brick walls) iron and glass roofs and brick slabs. That's the reason why you can't see the bars in reference pics Bruce and that's the reason why factory facades were often made with bricks
I hope my english has been good enough to explain you what I meant
cheers
meaty_hellhound
Joined: July 23, 2010
KitMaker: 786 posts
Armorama: 753 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 - 02:14 AM UTC
thanks Mauro, some of my pics show the I beams embedded in the horizontal concrete "beams" which, again in some pics, show sticking out and in others seem to have broken away at the ends with the concrete.
i also don't understand how the large floors would not sag without rebar. they also seem to have tons of supporting posts within the interiors, something modern buildings can avoid. pics show posts throughout the space which must not be great for a workspace.
they definitely had thick brick walls. this is a good discussion for us who may be building this type of structure. rebar isn't a big thing to model but it seems not to be evident unless someone has some pics to share. cheers, bd.
i also don't understand how the large floors would not sag without rebar. they also seem to have tons of supporting posts within the interiors, something modern buildings can avoid. pics show posts throughout the space which must not be great for a workspace.
they definitely had thick brick walls. this is a good discussion for us who may be building this type of structure. rebar isn't a big thing to model but it seems not to be evident unless someone has some pics to share. cheers, bd.
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