Ok, as you know the Panda 2S6M and the Trumpeter 2S3 are both out now. And both use the same suspension. Tank Mania's kits that utilized the same suspension were initially more 1/40 scale than 1/35. So last night I was looking at my kits and wondering if I could swap a Trumpeter 2S3 suspension on my SA-15 without too much trouble and call it good. Well, good news.

To the best of my ability, the actual hull and electronics on the Tank Mania kit ARE 1/35 true (+/- 1mm tolerance). BUT the suspension is still the old 1/40 scale equipment. SO...if you want to use the Trumpeter suspension, you will actually be correcting the entire kit. Hooray.

Remember, Trumpeter's suspension and track are the EARLY type. Panda's suspension in the 2S6M is the LATE type (and, frankly, a MUCH more time intensive adventure).

So...hooray. I will post pics to show the difference.

Here is a picture of some of the key parts of the suspension:



Again, the Trumpeter pieces (grey/brown tracks) are the EARLIER version...the Tank mania pieces are the LATE type.

For my next trick, I will put the Trumpeter suspension on the SA-15 hull. Stand back and protect the small children and elderly.

Is the Tankmania suspension underscale on the Sa-4 Ganef?

Regards,
Andy

I'm looking at mine an the tracks look the same, Gabor would be the one to ask.
Jim

The SA-4 kit is 1/40 scale. I have measured it out and it is very accurate to 1/40. The 1S32 Pat Hand I am going to say is also 1/40. I can find no dimensional data on this vehcile to confirm it, but it looks like it. The 2S3 kit is also 1/40 scale.

However, the SA-8 system is 1/35.

The SA-15, as mentioned, is 1/35 with a 1/40 scale suspension (roadwheels, Sprocket, and Idler). The track is close to 1/35 and the Return rollers are actually overscale.

This is not meant as a criticism of Pawel's hard work. If anything, it seems with the SA-15 he made adjustments at least beyond the suspension.

I will be adding the Trumpeter 2S3 suspension to my SA-15 kit and will take pictures once done.

I bought a Panda Tunguska more to the purpose, convert TOR.
Adapted to the tower and other parts, as the same chassis, suspension.

Thanks Jacques, that confirms what my measurements show. Looks like I'm going to have to scratch a complete new hull and use running gear from the Trumpeter 2S3. I'll just live with/ fudge the difference in the missile gear, hopefully it wont show too much.

Regards,
Andy

Added all the suspension pieces I thought were needed. This includes the Sprocket, the Idler and Idler arm, the roadwheels, the roadwheel arms, the return rollers, and the Tracks.

You need to make, or increase, the openings for ALL the wheels, including the roadwheel arms, the Sprocket, the return rollers, and the idler arm. A 7/64 drill bit does the job exactly.

I have glued the roadwheel and idler arms on:



Here is the setup WITHOUT the outside wheels:



And with everything;



the photos have some "bend" to them, so they are not perfect, but they get the look across.

Now, here is the next problem I have...

Researching the SA-15 / 9k331 Tor I found out the initial vehicle had 6 road wheels and the old style road wheels/idler/sprocket.

At some point new roadwheels/idlers/sprockets were introduced BUT the old tracks (solid guide horns) were still retained.



Now is it me, or do those roadwheels look SMALLER than the older ones?

I checked the wheels on the Panda Tunguska and they are smaller than the Trumpeter roadwheels, but not as small as the ones in the Tank Mania kit. The Return rollers in the Panda kit are larger than the ones in the Trumpeter kit, but the same size as the Tank Mania ones. The Trumpeter and Panda Sprockets are the same size, even with different styles while the Tank Mania one is noticeably smaller. The Panda idler is NOT scalloped like the "newer" version, so the smaller (?) Tank Mania part would have to be used as it is the only correct one for the newer suspension on the SA-15.



The Panda models road wheels DO FIT on the Trumpeter road wheel arms nicely too. And to mount the Panda models road wheel arms would take a 7/64 drill bit as well.

Finally, at another point in the SA-15 development, and I am unsure at this point when (Tor-M, Tor-M1, or Tor-M2) the chassis was changed and lengthened to include 7 road wheels and 4 return rollers as well as the top of the upper hull being level from front to back (no mid-level drop down).

So the Tank Mania kit seems to represent what I will call the Tor-M, with new road wheels/idlers/sprockets, but with the older tracks and ONLY 6 road wheels.

Oh, and their are 9 extra tracks per side when using the Trumpeter suspension setup, so the 2S3 kit has enough tracks for BOTH sides of the kit.

So, in conclusion, here is what you can do:

1. Build the Tank Mania kit OOB. It will look a BIT off, but it is not THAT bad.

2. Add the suspension/tracks from the Trumpeter 2S3 kit to depict a EARLY SA-15.

3. Add the Suspension from the Panda Models 2S6M Tunguska to make a more modern SA-15.

4. You can swap out road wheel arms from either plastic kit and use the tracks from either plastic kit to mix-and-match specific photos.

PS - after building the Trumpeter 2S3 tracks, I absolutely HATE HATE HATE both Tank Mania and Panda Models tracks. WOW, are they nice tracks.

I should not have built the existing chassis, look at the picture, too many bugs in it (front, rear axle ...).

But is that what you are trying to make? That is my problem, how many different chassis/hull changes? Early SA-15 with old suspension has very FEW photos...most photos are with the new suspension at arms shows...with changes for export? This is the problem with liking Russian armor...I am half a world away to actually see it! Arg! And the Russians LOVE to change things mid-production and still field all modifications. Lord grant me Patience!

Well, the hull is correctly 1/35 for SA-15 with 6 road wheels...and the 2S3 suspension makes a BIG difference...

So....there isnt much point of using the PANDA running gears since we have to use the small Tank-mania idler wheels.
Thats leave us with option 1,2 and 4.

Have just found this link:
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/sa-159k330-tor/p45293-tor.html
The idler wheel looks interesting....Panda's road wheel 'looks to be' in a better size.

Jacques
You are right about the trumpeter tracks, they do build easy, I wonder does Trumpeter sell these tracks separate. I hate trashing a kit, but your results look good and I been holding off building the SA-15, but I think now is the time. Thanks for the lesson.
Jim

I looked at Trumpeter-China site and a new release of 2S1 at the end of may will also be followed with a separate set of tracks for sale, yet I did not see anything of the 2S3 tracks being released as a separate product. If any one could clarify this the only thing left would be wheels and sprockets so looks like I will have to wreck a $50.00 kit to make the repair. Now will this also fix the SA-4 and Pat Hand Wheels and tracks as to me they look the same. Note that SA-4 and Pat hand have 7 drivers and the new version of the 2S3 have 7 drivers if I counted right.
Jim

Hi Everybody;

Where do you Guys come up with this Stuff.
You All must be Nuts EEEERRRR Crazy--------

Great Stuff !! Thanks Guys !! Oh You too JD


CHEERS; MIKE.

Jim, the Pat Hand and the SA-4 are both in 1/40 scale, so adding the 1/35 running gear to them would make them look incorrect. Gonna need a new SA-4 and Pat Hand in 1/35. Sorry Pawel, back to work!

As for the conversion, I would think you would also want to add the road wheel arms and idler arms so you gotta gut a kit, or get extra sprues.

I guess I phrased my point wrong, I realize what is involved in the Sa-15, I guess I was hoping the fix would work on the other 2, I did not realize the scale was off that much, Still good looking kits when completed though. my bad.
Jim

yeah, good point. The Tank Mania kits only real problem (well, the SA-4/2S3/Pat Hand) is that they are 1/40 scale and not 1/35. They are fully contained kits that build up nicely when done. just be warned that they are 1/40.

And as I said, the SA-8 scales out to 1/35.

Now, on to further work on the SA-15...up, up, and away!

The first...


It is not impossible that the Trumpeter is not entirely correct size.
PANDA HOBBY yes, which is why I selected departures.
I do not test my kit with Tank Mania TOR, because the chassis is identical to the set of 5Star Tunguska, which is not okay.
Solution?
I bought two sets PANDA Tunguska, and the second one using photos and TANK MANIA kit converts. The tower is leaving (TANK MANIA) on the chassis builders, according to manipulate.
PANDA HOBBY running wheel size is correct (I weighed), the stent is essentially a rubber uncoated, lightweight running wheel.
Use the same BUK / TOR, however, many changes have been made in the manufacturing process: three kinds of track, two types of running wheel was used, sometimes mixed.

The TOR was made early in the Tunguska chassis already in production (as amended), because there was no money in the subsequent seven running on a wheeled chassis.
Solution is needed, but it was no longer financial barriers, the TOR upgraded to the new chassis was built, there is a trailer and wheeled vehicle.
The tracks 2S3, T-72 is based on modified track members, but not the same FRIULMODEL is made ​​of metal stocks, which are very welcome.

Trumpeter running wheels too big. Diameter bad.

I will look into the roadwheel diameter when I get a chance.