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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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Building Tiger-Model's VBL
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 06:01 PM UTC
Marco.. NOOOO, I didn't mean you're an old man, I meant that I need to live long enough and practice a lot to maybe reach you're skill level.. but that probably won't happen because I'm the old man, just turned 55 this past July.. My eyes are shot and my hands are shaky from my diabetes.. so, I doubt I'll ever be good enough to build beautiful models like yours

I'm still not sure about the rear suspension on this thing, it's driving me crazy.. I hope one of the experts will read this

Hisham
35th-scale
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Kildare, Ireland
Joined: November 21, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 06:16 PM UTC
Even he start if the wheel arches are not lined up....must be the vehicle itself.
Raliman
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Portugal
Joined: June 15, 2015
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 06:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I hope this pic shows it clearly.

I'm assuming it's my error, but I can't figure out where I went wrong




Strange.

The two pieces don´t have the same shape, right?

Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 06:49 PM UTC
Here are the instructions.. you can see most of the parts are in one piece.. so not much room for misalignment





I took some pics of the parts on the sprues from my other kit.. the parts Luis is pointing to look similar.. but the axle assembly looks strange



This is the part that looks strange.. or is it just my eyes?



Hisham
mvaiano
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Sao Paulo, Brazil
Joined: January 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,054 posts
Armorama: 1,050 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 07:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Marco.. NOOOO, I didn't mean you're an old man, I meant that I need to live long enough and practice a lot to maybe reach you're skill level.. but that probably won't happen because I'm the old man, just turned 55 this past July.. My eyes are shot and my hands are shaky from my diabetes.. so, I doubt I'll ever be good enough to build beautiful models like yours

I'm still not sure about the rear suspension on this thing, it's driving me crazy.. I hope one of the experts will read this

Hisham


I was kidding my brother! (may I call you "brother"?).

I'm 49 (july 19th) and have bad eyes to My hands don't shake to much, but they are realy heavy. I build since I was 18 and almost never stopped.

I'm sure you'll live a long time and I'm sure your models are great.

I love and need other modellers opinions, but if I want or not do something in MY model, it's my business.

I saw the parts and assembly pics and couldn't see mistakes.

The DANA (and you can see my version here ) has off set wheels too.

So, let's wait the experts, as you said.

Cheers my friend!

Marco
young_sven
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: May 14, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 07:10 PM UTC
Hi Hisham,

I am probably stating the obvious but...

It looks to me like the axle assembly has warped slightly, with one axle angled backwards and the other forwards. Is it possible to bend these back to their straight positions? Looks like it could be possible.

Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 07:12 PM UTC
Hey.. my Birthday is on July 20th And of course you can call me "brother".. I'm honored

Hisham
Raliman
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Portugal
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KitMaker: 54 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 07:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text





One axle looks bigger.
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 07:15 PM UTC
Hey, Sven.. I thought about bending them when I was building it, but then they won't fit in the holes they need to go into.. Like Sean said, even the wheel wells look offset.. It's either in the design of the real vehicle.. or a mistake in the kit.. not sure which?

Hisham
mvaiano
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Sao Paulo, Brazil
Joined: January 24, 2012
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 08:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey.. my Birthday is on July 20th And of course you can call me "brother".. I'm honored

Hisham


Good, good! I'm honoured, because now I have an Egyptian brother!

I looked at piece A5 and noted that the brake discs are off set.

So, I can say you didn't make a mistake (IMHO).

Cheers brother!

Marco
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 08:16 PM UTC
The kit is correct. It should be offset since the vehicle uses a torsion bar suspension just like tanks do. Panhard was actually one of the first to introduce torsion bar suspensions on cars in the 1930s.
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 08:23 PM UTC
Thanks for confirming that it's not my mistake or a mistake in the kit.. I never realized you could have offset wheels like this.. shows you how much I know

Hisham
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 08:26 PM UTC
Tiger Models themselves have this at their website: "What was unique was the rear wheels used the torsion bar suspension which was only applied in tank. Consequently, the pair of rear wheels were not on the same line if you are looking from the side."

http://www.tiger-model.com/info.asp?ArticleID=141&hl=en
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 08:39 PM UTC
Shows you that you should read everything

Hisham
mvaiano
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Sao Paulo, Brazil
Joined: January 24, 2012
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Posted: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 - 10:04 PM UTC
Problem solved!

Your build is correct.

Cheers!

Marco
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 06:50 PM UTC
Well, I just gave the interior a coat of light green today.. next I'll paint the black parts with a brush.. hope it will look OK.

Also, I put the light tent together so that the pics could be a little better







Hisham
young_sven
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: May 14, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 08:43 PM UTC
Looks great, Hisham! Makes me want to start mine :-)

Great that the offset rear wheels mystery is solved.
The British and the French seem to have come up with such oddities in their vehicles (or perhaps we should call them innovations). I mean this in a completely non-offensive way, I am half-British and some of the British AFV designs through history leave me wondering... "why?" ;-)
Lazzarus78
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Switzerland
Joined: January 27, 2013
KitMaker: 75 posts
Armorama: 75 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 09:38 PM UTC
Hi Hisham, just can agree, looks pretty nice so far. Can't wait to see some more progress. Mine arrived today and i will start with it when i am done with my Meng Tiger.
Keep going on with your good work.
Cheers Chris
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 11:08 PM UTC
Thanks, guys.. I'm trying my best not to botch it up.. I just wish I could figure out why the paint comes out grainy and not smooth as it should

Hisham
Drac67
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 14, 2013
KitMaker: 35 posts
Armorama: 35 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 11:45 PM UTC
Hi Hisham,

I received the AMX-10RC last week; you have now convinced me to get the VBL also.

Thanks for your review !

Marc
Lazzarus78
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Switzerland
Joined: January 27, 2013
KitMaker: 75 posts
Armorama: 75 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 11:55 PM UTC
Hi, main reason for grainy paint is the paint dries before it is on the model. You can eliminate that with using some thinner( not too much) or get closer to the Model with the airbrush. Or you can add some retarder which gives you more time till colors dry. Easiest was is go closer to the model with the Airbrush. Watch out you put not too much color on.
Hope that helps.
Cheers Chris
VelluS
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Keski-Suomi, Finland
Joined: November 04, 2014
KitMaker: 52 posts
Armorama: 50 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 12:08 AM UTC
Thanks for posting this Hisham. Now I know that Tiger models kit is decent one. As I like to build white UN vehicles I guess I have to buy this one too.
Hisham
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 12:38 AM UTC
Hey, guys.. I'm glad somebody is finding this thread useful

Hey, Christoph.. thanks for the advice on the painting.. I'll try that when I do the chassis and see if it comes out better

Hisham
Lazzarus78
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Switzerland
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KitMaker: 75 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 12:59 AM UTC
No problem, if it dosen't work better, you can also try to put on 2or 3 layers of glossy varnish. Gloss varnish makes the Surface smooth, perhahps some more, once i added 5 layers until it was smoothie. And it is perfect for the following washing. Sometimes i have the same problem, specially when i try some new colors of a Brand i use the first time.
Cheers Chris
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 01:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Great that the offset rear wheels mystery is solved.
The British and the French seem to have come up with such oddities in their vehicles (or perhaps we should call them innovations).

Actually the same solution was used on the two rear axles of Piranha / LAV vehicles family. Most kits fail to represent it though... As far as I remember the Trumpeter kits have slight offset at tear wheels, although it seemed too small. Italeri missed it completely in their LAV-25.
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