Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Tiger 1 Mid Production - Sd.Kfz.181 Ausf E
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:35 AM UTC
Remember to keep shaking the can every so often as you spray. Light coats; build up the color.

And I would let it sit 24hrs between each layer (primer, black, dark yellow).
Armorsmith
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:47 AM UTC
Not saying that it can't be done but pre-shading and base coat with a rattle can might be a bit tough. I say this because once the black is down as a pre-shade I'm not sure you can get the control you need with the base coat rattle can. With an airbrush it's pretty easy because you have greater control to more selective lay on the paint in certain others where you want more coverage versus those areas where you would want less. There are ways of doing it using post it notes as a mask but I'm not familiar enough to advise on that. Maybe someone else will chime in. On the other hand since it sounds like you are going to purchase an airbrush you might want to wait and do the whole project with that. Like any other tool practice is the key but based on what you have done so far it might come pretty easy to you.
Thirian24
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not saying that it can't be done but pre-shading and base coat with a rattle can might be a bit tough. I say this because once the black is down as a pre-shade I'm not sure you can get the control you need with the base coat rattle can. With an airbrush it's pretty easy because you have greater control to more selective lay on the paint in certain others where you want more coverage versus those areas where you would want less. There are ways of doing it using post it notes as a mask but I'm not familiar enough to advise on that. Maybe someone else will chime in. On the other hand since it sounds like you are going to purchase an airbrush you might want to wait and do the whole project with that. Like any other tool practice is the key but based on what you have done so far it might come pretty easy to you.



I really understand what you're saying here.. The black will be pointless because I can't control the amount of base coat I put down.

I may have to reconsider the rattle cans.

Can anyone suggest what paints/colors/brands I really need to be using for hand painting and air brushing.

I seen mention of a dark rubber color for road wheels. This is the kind of info I need so I can buy paints.. I have NONE. Lol..
Thirian24
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Remember to keep shaking the can every so often as you spray. Light coats; build up the color.

And I would let it sit 24hrs between each layer (primer, black, dark yellow).



Thank you for this great tip!
tatbaqui
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:15 AM UTC

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What's the best way to give some "battle damage" to the plastic fenders and side skirts?



I remember reading one article where someone said they bit the fender pieces,can't vouch for the method since I haven't tried it but might be fun.



Dustin,

I tried that approach -- it just didn't look convincing for me as it was obvious it had my dental signature on it!

Of late what I do is to sand down the reverse side of a panel. Once I think it's pliable, I'd push or bend to shape using a blunt-edge tool. At times I'd also use either a round or triangular file to create dents. Here's a shameless plug:




All the best to your build.

Cheers,

Tat
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:38 AM UTC
You can use Tamiya NATO Black for the rubber on the wheels, although depending on how much you weather it up you may not see much rubber anyway.
Thirian24
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 08:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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What's the best way to give some "battle damage" to the plastic fenders and side skirts?



I remember reading one article where someone said they bit the fender pieces,can't vouch for the method since I haven't tried it but might be fun.



Dustin,

I tried that approach -- it just didn't look convincing for me as it was obvious it had my dental signature on it!

Of late what I do is to sand down the reverse side of a panel. Once I think it's pliable, I'd push or bend to shape using a blunt-edge tool. At times I'd also use either a round or triangular file to create dents. Here's a shameless plug:




All the best to your build.

Cheers,

Tat



Lol! That's a great story, I think I won't be biting mine! You advice is great! I do think I'll try that on my next kit. Yours looks great!

Thank you very much sir!
Thirian24
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 08:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You can use Tamiya NATO Black for the rubber on the wheels, although depending on how much you weather it up you may not see much rubber anyway.



I need to start getting a list together of proper colors and weathering sets.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 09:08 PM UTC
Paints are yet another area where everyone has their own preference. I use Tamiya and Testors Model Masters acrylics almost exclusively for base coating and cammo. Depending on where you live and how much you are willing to shop online, these two brands are generally the most readily available. While neither is non toxic there is not the problem with unpleasant (noxious)fumes as with enamels or lacquers. I do use artist oils for weathering, washes, filters etc. These paints can be found a Michael's and can be a bit pricy. There is usually a coupon in the Sunday paper for 40% off a single item. I would use it to buy a starter set that has maybe a dozen or so colors and generally is regularly priced around $20-$25. Some colors you will use often while others not so much but much cheaper than buying individual tubes that run about $8 each.
As for weathering powders these too can be quite expensive. Once again Michael's is your friend using the Sunday coupon you can get a set of artist pastels starting around $15 regular price. The chalk sticks can be "shaved" down into powder and mixed together to get different shades. In my opinion it doesn't make sense to dive into the more expensive stuff until you have definitely decided that you want to make them part of your style and until you develop some proficiency in their use. I'm sure others have their own opinions. Again, ultimately it is what works for you and remember modelling is not an exact science-it's an art and there are no formulas for producing great art. In fact, most great art is achieved by those who defy the accepted conventions and take their own path. Hope this helps.
Thirian24
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 09:44 PM UTC
That does help tremendously. At least by doing that, I can learn what I need to do before buying the MIG or AK stuff. I've been watching a lot of videos on weathering. Those guys tend to use those two brands religiously.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 10:08 PM UTC
Artist pastels and oils are what everybody used before the Mig stuff came on the scene. I am on a very tight budget hence my lean to inexpensive alternatives. The Mig stuff is supposed to have real fine pigments, etc. so they adhere better but I have never found that to be a problem.
If no one has told you yet once you have the base coat and cammo applied and dried you need to apply a sealer, a clear gloss coat so your decals won't "silver" i.e. so the carrier film disappears. The type of clear coat will depend on how you are going to weather. If using oils or enamels you need to use an acrylic clear such as Tamiya clear or future and let it dry completely before applying decals. A decal setting solution also helps. I prefer Solvaset but any brand will do. The setting solution softens the decal and helps it snuggle down over rivets etc. to give a more painted on look. Once the decals are dry clear coat again and you are ready for weathering. If you are going to use acrylics or water based paints for weathering then clear coat with an enamel or lacquer such as Testors clear lacquer. There are other brands but the point is clear coat with the opposite kind of paint from the kind you are going to weather with. Good luck.
Thirian24
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 11:44 PM UTC
Armorsmith,

That is very helpful, as I did not know that. Thank you very much for sticking with me and giving me pointers. It's greatly appreciated sir!

Ok, my wife has me very busy today, but I snuck in a primer coat.

Good so far?




Cheers,
Dustin
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:09 AM UTC


Looking good.
Thirian24
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:20 AM UTC
Thank you sir!
Headhunter506
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:31 AM UTC

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Thank you sir!



Please, don't call me "sir". I've never stopped anyone because of an expired registration sticker in my life.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:47 AM UTC
Be sure to allow the allow primer to cure thoroughly. Depending on whether you used an acrylic or an enamel I would let it sit for at least 24hrs for acrylic and 48hrs for an enamel. While the paint may look dry and may even be dry to the touch it needs to fully cure to really be dry, hard, and durable. That said you did a terrific job with the rattle can. The painting and weathering process is where you really need to be patient and not rush things. Difficult I know when you are so close to the end and anxious to see the finished product, especially when it's your first kit. As a general guideline remember that when weathering, less is more. Better that the final result be somewhat understated than overdone. It is also easier to add to the process than to try to undo something that is overdone. It seems to me that you have a knack and a good eye so trust your instincts.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:55 AM UTC
Noticed that you have not yet done the road wheels. Easiest way to do them is to skewer them and stick them in a piece of foam to dry. Depending on the diameter of the hole you can use toothpicks or shaved down sprue. This also makes it easier to paint the rubber portion. Just place the brush along the rubber portion and slowly turn the skewer between your thumb and forefinger. There are also masks and templates available that will let you spray the rubber, but like removing seams and turning a 2 piece plastic barrel I consider this another essential skill for an armor modeler. Again this is only my opinion.

I also noticed the Q-tips in the background. While they can be very useful you will discover(if you already haven't) that they have a tendency to leave behind small strands which are a real nuisance and a pain in the butt to search for and pick off.

If you tire of my ramblings please let me know, but as I have been modelling for over 50 years I feel that I have learned something about the hobby and am happy to pass on what I have learned over the years. Good luck.
Thirian24
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 01:08 AM UTC
Armorsmith,

I do very much appreciate your advice and input, so please keep it coming!

You're correct.. I'm very anxious to get some color down! But you're correct, I must let this primer cure.

And that's great advice on the road wheels. That part of this kit has been my least favorite.

I'm also worried about these rubber tracks. I've been reading up on how to make them look nice. So we will see.

Cheers,
Dustin
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 01:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Armorsmith,

I do very much appreciate your advice and input, so please keep it coming!

You're correct.. I'm very anxious to get some color down! But you're correct, I must let this primer cure.

And that's great advice on the road wheels. That part of this kit has been my least favorite.

I'm also worried about these rubber tracks. I've been reading up on how to make them look nice. So we will see.

Cheers,
Dustin



Dustin, you indicated that this is Tamiya 35194. The kit was provided with rubber band tracks? That's odd. I have this kit and it contains individual track links.
Armorsmith
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 01:38 AM UTC
Road wheels are indeed a bit tedious. Something else you might want to consider, joining a local AMPS(Armor Modelling and Preservation Society) and or IPMS(International Plastic Modelers Society)chapter. Most clubs hold meetings at least monthly sometimes more often. Meetings are usually pretty informal and there is generally a show and tell where members display and talk about their latest projects. Not only will you see some outstanding works but you will have an opportunity to pick members brains for tips and advice. Some chapters also occasionally have demos where a member will actually demonstrate a technique. All in all a great way to learn. Just remember to take everything said about the best way to do things with a grain of salt. It may be the best way for them but not necessarily you, but at least you will be exposed to a variety of opinions, styles, techniques, etc. from which you can try out and decide for yourself.
Thirian24
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 02:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Armorsmith,

I do very much appreciate your advice and input, so please keep it coming!

You're correct.. I'm very anxious to get some color down! But you're correct, I must let this primer cure.

And that's great advice on the road wheels. That part of this kit has been my least favorite.

I'm also worried about these rubber tracks. I've been reading up on how to make them look nice. So we will see.

Cheers,
Dustin



Dustin, you indicated that this is Tamiya 35194. The kit was provided with rubber band tracks? That's odd. I have this kit and it contains individual track links.



I'm sorry about that. I don't know why I had rubber tracks on my mind. Yes it has the individual links.
Thirian24
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 02:54 AM UTC
That's a good idea Armorsmith. I'll give that a look.
Thirian24
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Posted: Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 01:36 AM UTC
I went to my not so local hobby store today and picked up a start to some supplies. I'll be ordering an airbrush tomorrow.

Propellant cans will work for a bit?



Cheers,
Dustin
Armorsmith
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Posted: Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 01:54 AM UTC
I think you have made a good choice. Tamiya paints airbrush very well when used with their own thinner which I see you also purchased. An added benefit to Tamiya paints is their ease of clean up, you can clean your brushes in water and low odor. Windex is also great for stripping the paint down to bare plastic if you mess up or just decide you don't like the look. Spray the Windex on or soak the kit in a shallow pan or tub and in usually 5-10 minutes you can rinse it in warm water and you will have clean looks like new plastic to try on again. Can't really tell which colors you picked but for German armor dark yellow or sand is a must, as is red brown and olive green or some shades that are very close. As long as the color is close it will not matter much as the weathering process has a way of dramatically altering the original colors. Part of the fun and enjoyment here is experimenting with different washes and filters to change the original tone of the "standard" colors. Have fun and good luck.
Thirian24
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Posted: Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 02:25 AM UTC
Thank you sir. I have a couple questions for you, which you may have already answered, but just want some clarity. I bought a few of the floquil washes, they are enamels. Must I use enamel thinner to clean up after them? Or will the acrylic thinner clean them?

Also, I bought the Humbrol Matte clear acrylic in the rattle can. Will that be good for what you mentioned for the decals? I also seen where they did the washing/staining after the clear. Is it supposed to be a certain type, enamel/acrylic and is it supposed to be semi gloss. Will what I bought work properly?

Cheers,
Dustin