all, am after some inspiration for vehicles used in the 1980s by Soviet/Warsaw Pact countries. I am tempted to do something different so was looking at BTRs but there are so many variants I am not sure which ones were in the European theatre during the 80s. Taken with the Trumpeter 1/35 but which would be an option OOTB? Any other thoughts on "unusual" (there is a Trumpy Gaz truck & rear mounted gun combi but that seems to be non-Soviet(?)) Warsaw Pact (doesn't need to be Trumpeter but prefer 1/35 scale)
thanks all
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Soviet 1/35 depicting 1980s Warsaw Pact Units
robw_uk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 02:48 PM UTC
sussexguy
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 03:50 PM UTC
I was in the Army in Germany at the time you mention, the lectures and briefings we used to get would suggest Motor Rifle Regiments equipped with BMP1 if part of Tank formations and BTR60PB if part of Infantry (MotorRifle) formations. The BTR60PB is an infantry APC. The BTR60PA is the open topped version (not in use in Germany at that time as far as I am aware. The BTR60PU is the command version found at Battalion and Regimental headquarters. The BTR70 (Just entering service back then) was issued to some East German formations, it is basically a stretched BTR60. BTR 80 also entering service but only with elite formations in Russia itself. The East Germans also still had BTR50.
robw_uk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 04:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I was in the Army in Germany at the time you mention, the lectures and briefings we used to get would suggest Motor Rifle Regiments equipped with BMP1 if part of Tank formations and BTR60PB if part of Infantry (MotorRifle) formations. The BTR60PB is an infantry APC. The BTR60PA is the open topped version (not in use in Germany at that time as far as I am aware. The BTR60PU is the command version found at Battalion and Regimental headquarters. The BTR70 (Just entering service back then) was issued to some East German formations, it is basically a stretched BTR60. BTR 80 also entering service but only with elite formations in Russia itself. The East Germans also still had BTR50.
thanks - tempted by the BTR60PB or PU from Trumpeter... seem to be good kits at a reasonable price.
Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 05:03 PM UTC
Just a quick note about the BTR-60 open top- this had a really short service life due to the impracticalities of the open roof and saw very little service before being replaced by the closed top versions.
robw_uk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 05:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just a quick note about the BTR-60 open top- this had a really short service life due to the impracticalities of the open roof and saw very little service before being replaced by the closed top versions.
thanks, prefer the closed ones anyway ....
Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 09:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Any other thoughts on "unusual" (there is a Trumpy Gaz truck & rear mounted gun combi but that seems to be non-Soviet(?)) Warsaw Pactl
Hi Robert -
To the best of my knowledge, the GAZ-66 with the ZU-23-2 AA gun on the cargo bed was used by the Soviet Army in the Soviet-Afghan war in the 1980s, along with other types of truck mounting the same gun, but they weren't stationed in Europe.
Jerry
robw_uk
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 10:02 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAny other thoughts on "unusual" (there is a Trumpy Gaz truck & rear mounted gun combi but that seems to be non-Soviet(?)) Warsaw Pactl
Hi Robert -
To the best of my knowledge, the GAZ-66 with the ZU-23-2 AA gun on the cargo bed was used by the Soviet Army in the Soviet-Afghan war in the 1980s, along with other types of truck mounting the same gun, but they weren't stationed in Europe.
Jerry
cheers Jerry - the build is for a group build of NATO vs Warsaw Pact so dont think i an spread to the Afghan war - but if is spread my builds away from WWII then may treat myself
Jacques
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 11:57 PM UTC
Well, in the 1980's the Russians had what were called Category A, B, and C units. A brief summary:
Category A units were top line units that got new equipment and training very quickly. Full mechanization. Full readiness at 75-110%. ALL units in GSFG (Group of Soviet Forces in Germany) were Category A.
Category B units were reserve units using second line equipment or less technologically advanced equipment. Mostly mechanized, more reliance on wheeled vs. tracked equipment. Partial readiness at 45-65%. 30 day timeline to make combat ready.
Category C units were strategically stored equipment using troops that were to be called to duty after some refresher training. These units had older equipment and relied heavily on wheeled vehicles. Low readiness at 10-25%. 60 day timeline to bring to make combat ready.
By the 1980's you had:
Category A units: T-64 or T-80 tank, BMP-2 IFV, BTR-80 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units (BTR-60PU etc...), ZSU-23/4 or Tunguska and SA-9, SA-6, SA-8, 2S1, 2S3, 2S7 artillery. etc.
Category B units: T-72 or T-62 tank, BMP-1 IFV, BTR-70 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units, ZSU-57-2, SA-6, SA-8 MANPAD, troops carried in trucks rather than APC's in some cases, towed artillery like D-30, D-74 etc...
Category C units: T-55 or T-62 tank, BTR-60, BTR-50, BTR-152, BTR-152 AAA, SA-8 MANPAD, some BTR-60 specialty vehicles, troops in trucks, older towed artillery such as ML-20 or D-44, towed AT guns like BS-3.
This is a BREIF overview to give you and idea of how things were organized.
Category A units were top line units that got new equipment and training very quickly. Full mechanization. Full readiness at 75-110%. ALL units in GSFG (Group of Soviet Forces in Germany) were Category A.
Category B units were reserve units using second line equipment or less technologically advanced equipment. Mostly mechanized, more reliance on wheeled vs. tracked equipment. Partial readiness at 45-65%. 30 day timeline to make combat ready.
Category C units were strategically stored equipment using troops that were to be called to duty after some refresher training. These units had older equipment and relied heavily on wheeled vehicles. Low readiness at 10-25%. 60 day timeline to bring to make combat ready.
By the 1980's you had:
Category A units: T-64 or T-80 tank, BMP-2 IFV, BTR-80 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units (BTR-60PU etc...), ZSU-23/4 or Tunguska and SA-9, SA-6, SA-8, 2S1, 2S3, 2S7 artillery. etc.
Category B units: T-72 or T-62 tank, BMP-1 IFV, BTR-70 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units, ZSU-57-2, SA-6, SA-8 MANPAD, troops carried in trucks rather than APC's in some cases, towed artillery like D-30, D-74 etc...
Category C units: T-55 or T-62 tank, BTR-60, BTR-50, BTR-152, BTR-152 AAA, SA-8 MANPAD, some BTR-60 specialty vehicles, troops in trucks, older towed artillery such as ML-20 or D-44, towed AT guns like BS-3.
This is a BREIF overview to give you and idea of how things were organized.
kampfy
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Posted: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 - 09:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, in the 1980's the Russians had what were called Category A, B, and C units. A brief summary:
Category A units were top line units that got new equipment and training very quickly. Full mechanization. Full readiness at 75-110%. ALL units in GSFG (Group of Soviet Forces in Germany) were Category A.
Category B units were reserve units using second line equipment or less technologically advanced equipment. Mostly mechanized, more reliance on wheeled vs. tracked equipment. Partial readiness at 45-65%. 30 day timeline to make combat ready.
Category C units were strategically stored equipment using troops that were to be called to duty after some refresher training. These units had older equipment and relied heavily on wheeled vehicles. Low readiness at 10-25%. 60 day timeline to bring to make combat ready.
By the 1980's you had:
Category A units: T-64 or T-80 tank, BMP-2 IFV, BTR-80 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units (BTR-60PU etc...), ZSU-23/4 or Tunguska and SA-9, SA-6, SA-8, 2S1, 2S3, 2S7 artillery. etc.
Category B units: T-72 or T-62 tank, BMP-1 IFV, BTR-70 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units, ZSU-57-2, SA-6, SA-8 MANPAD, troops carried in trucks rather than APC's in some cases, towed artillery like D-30, D-74 etc...
Category C units: T-55 or T-62 tank, BTR-60, BTR-50, BTR-152, BTR-152 AAA, SA-8 MANPAD, some BTR-60 specialty vehicles, troops in trucks, older towed artillery such as ML-20 or D-44, towed AT guns like BS-3.
This is a BREIF overview to give you and idea of how things were organized.
Interesting that the T64 and not the T72 was the other category A unit tank during the 1980's. Any reason why the Soviet did it that way?
juge75
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Posted: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 - 11:34 AM UTC
If the 80s ...
At the time, the system has been BTR -60 PU -12 devices (Hungary, the Hungarian People's Army , the team 's air defenses . ) .
At the time, the system has been BTR -60 PU -12 devices (Hungary, the Hungarian People's Army , the team 's air defenses . ) .
robw_uk
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Posted: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 - 01:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, in the 1980's the Russians had what were called Category A, B, and C units. A brief summary:
Category A units were top line units that got new equipment and training very quickly. Full mechanization. Full readiness at 75-110%. ALL units in GSFG (Group of Soviet Forces in Germany) were Category A.
Category B units were reserve units using second line equipment or less technologically advanced equipment. Mostly mechanized, more reliance on wheeled vs. tracked equipment. Partial readiness at 45-65%. 30 day timeline to make combat ready.
Category C units were strategically stored equipment using troops that were to be called to duty after some refresher training. These units had older equipment and relied heavily on wheeled vehicles. Low readiness at 10-25%. 60 day timeline to bring to make combat ready.
By the 1980's you had:
Category A units: T-64 or T-80 tank, BMP-2 IFV, BTR-80 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units (BTR-60PU etc...), ZSU-23/4 or Tunguska and SA-9, SA-6, SA-8, 2S1, 2S3, 2S7 artillery. etc.
Category B units: T-72 or T-62 tank, BMP-1 IFV, BTR-70 IFV, BTR-60 specialty units, ZSU-57-2, SA-6, SA-8 MANPAD, troops carried in trucks rather than APC's in some cases, towed artillery like D-30, D-74 etc...
Category C units: T-55 or T-62 tank, BTR-60, BTR-50, BTR-152, BTR-152 AAA, SA-8 MANPAD, some BTR-60 specialty vehicles, troops in trucks, older towed artillery such as ML-20 or D-44, towed AT guns like BS-3.
This is a BREIF overview to give you and idea of how things were organized.
thanks... am thinking a BTR-60 PU is gaining more popularity with me, but all depends on how i feel when I come to buy a kit....
duttons
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Posted: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 - 05:40 PM UTC
The T-64 was a technologically advanced tank, never sold outside Russia, whilst the T-72 was made for the export market. The premier tanks were therefore T-80 and T-64, you can't just say the later is better asked on the T-X number.
duttons
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Posted: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 - 05:43 PM UTC
Asked should be based in reply, autotype.
PS may vote would be on a ZSU-23-4.
Looks great and new kits on the way
PS may vote would be on a ZSU-23-4.
Looks great and new kits on the way
robw_uk
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Posted: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 - 05:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Asked should be based in reply, autotype.
PS may vote would be on a ZSU-23-4.
Looks great and new kits on the way
yeah have seen some photos of the ZSU kits.. possibly beyond my skill (and budget)....
juge75
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Posted: Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 12:40 AM UTC
A bit of trivia: The Warsaw Pact member states was not everywhere at ZSU-23-4 attached to the system, and it was so that only the early version that was exported was not introduced in the second version.
For example, in Poland: They got the V variant, license manufactured improved variant V1 (first export version), and this is based on today's modernized Biala.
Czechoslovakia: They are not installed on over, few have been tested, but remained in their "Jesterka", and later completed his own development as a modern, 2A38 cannon on the Tunguska "Brams."
German People's Army: they are installed on over things, maybe they were the latest systems, V, V1 and had them 4M system.
Hungarian People's Army: The first early version V1 (series as it was a series produced in Egypt and took part in the war) and the subsequent V1 version received 22 copies, was not modernized.
For example, in Poland: They got the V variant, license manufactured improved variant V1 (first export version), and this is based on today's modernized Biala.
Czechoslovakia: They are not installed on over, few have been tested, but remained in their "Jesterka", and later completed his own development as a modern, 2A38 cannon on the Tunguska "Brams."
German People's Army: they are installed on over things, maybe they were the latest systems, V, V1 and had them 4M system.
Hungarian People's Army: The first early version V1 (series as it was a series produced in Egypt and took part in the war) and the subsequent V1 version received 22 copies, was not modernized.
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 03:33 AM UTC
Yes, WARSAW PACT nation units were treated differently than Russian units, so I labelled them as specifically Russian. I was hoping those of you who know the different TO&E (Table of Organization & Equipment)of the Warsaw Pact armies would speak up.