Hello all, I think it is time someone with the knowledge of modern radios and anti-IED gear do an informational page showing photos of all of the modern radios, their antennas, anti-IED gear, its associated control boxes and a brief explanation of what each does (within OPSEC constraints). I see all of these antennas and other items in kits and AM, but have no idea what they do. There are many of you who have a working knowledge of this topic, and it would be great to have it all in one post!
Regards,
Eric
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Modern Radio and Anti-IED Equipment
WXerock
#450
Joined: July 19, 2015
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 668 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 02:20 AM UTC
165thspc
#521
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 02:23 AM UTC
Amen to that!
MikeyBugs95
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 03:24 AM UTC
It might also help people like myself who like to design parts like this for 3D printing.
Epi
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 04:30 AM UTC
I was or am working on that for you guys. 
Cuny12
Joined: April 04, 2010
KitMaker: 378 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 04:39 AM UTC
I don't want to be the fun police here it would be interesting but I wouldn't want to see explanations of how this stuff works this gear has kept frontline soldiers safe from certain situations for many years now and there's a big reason it's not advertised freely to those that don't operate the equipment.
In terms of components because being rendered in scale I'm sure google images would give results this stuff is still being used and serves a highly important purpose any one advertising in a public forum how and why this stuff works is risking lives of soldiers currently on operations.
I know that sounds dramatic and I probably sound like an idiot but seriously that's the hard cold reality of this stuff, think the Enigma machine and what the outcome was once that was exploited by the allies things turned sour in that department for the Germans real fast different equipment but very same principles in terms of secrecy.
Cheers Ben.
In terms of components because being rendered in scale I'm sure google images would give results this stuff is still being used and serves a highly important purpose any one advertising in a public forum how and why this stuff works is risking lives of soldiers currently on operations.
I know that sounds dramatic and I probably sound like an idiot but seriously that's the hard cold reality of this stuff, think the Enigma machine and what the outcome was once that was exploited by the allies things turned sour in that department for the Germans real fast different equipment but very same principles in terms of secrecy.
Cheers Ben.
MikeyBugs95
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
Armorama: 1,712 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 05:41 AM UTC
I've had experience in trying to search for the radios for a project. Specificlly the AN/VIC-3 and -5. I couldn't find any specifications on it until I found a website that offered a TM for it which was not classified. Frankly I don't think we are asking for something thats Enigma machine level. We don't need to know how Boomerang works or the specifics of operation, really.
hliu24
Joined: November 19, 2010
KitMaker: 798 posts
Armorama: 797 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 07:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't want to be the fun police here it would be interesting but I wouldn't want to see explanations of how this stuff works this gear has kept frontline soldiers safe from certain situations for many years now and there's a big reason it's not advertised freely to those that don't operate the equipment.
In terms of components because being rendered in scale I'm sure google images would give results this stuff is still being used and serves a highly important purpose any one advertising in a public forum how and why this stuff works is risking lives of soldiers currently on operations.
I know that sounds dramatic and I probably sound like an idiot but seriously that's the hard cold reality of this stuff, think the Enigma machine and what the outcome was once that was exploited by the allies things turned sour in that department for the Germans real fast different equipment but very same principles in terms of secrecy.
Cheers Ben.
Agreed. We still have our guys out there, you don't want their enemies to learn their radios and Anti IED devices. Jay
MikeyBugs95
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 07:05 AM UTC
I just want to add on to what I said. I agree that anything that could potentially harm or hinder military personnel or operations should not be included such as radio frequencies or operating procedures.
WXerock
#450
Joined: July 19, 2015
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 668 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 07:36 AM UTC
Okay guys, This is ridiculous. I have been in the military for 28 years. I am not asking for anything classified. You are being very dramatic to think that seeing a 1/35th scale representation of an active system will tell Daesh or the Taliban anything they don't already know. Our enemies actively pursue intelligence about everything we are doing. They have the same access to the internet that you and I have. I am also not asking for a detailed explanation on the physics of how a piece of equipment works. I just want something like the name "DUKE", and a brief description like "used for counter IED operations". That's the extent of it. A primer if you will. Also, anyone who is in the military and carries any kind of a security clearance knows what they can and can't say or show pictures of. Most of this stuff is already ailable on various websites. I just want a Soldier or a Marine to show this Airman something that will help him build a more accurate model.
Pete, thanks for working on this for us. I really appreciate it. I am sure there are many of us who really would like this kind of help.
Regards,
Eric
Pete, thanks for working on this for us. I really appreciate it. I am sure there are many of us who really would like this kind of help.
Regards,
Eric
WXerock
#450
Joined: July 19, 2015
KitMaker: 672 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 07:41 AM UTC
Pete, something else that would be useful is a range of dates when a system was in use. Technology advances rapidly and it would be nice to know if a system should or shouldn't be used for a specific timeframe. This kind of info is less important because you can always refer to a photo of a specific vehicle you are modelling, but it would still be helpful.
Regards again,
Eric
Regards again,
Eric
Armorsmith
Joined: April 09, 2015
KitMaker: 1,063 posts
Armorama: 1,000 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 09:36 AM UTC
As a relative new comer to Cold War/modern AFVs I would find this most helpful and informative as I am utterly confused by the array of antennae and other protrusions found on modern vehicles. Thanks.
Thirian24
Joined: September 30, 2015
KitMaker: 2,493 posts
Armorama: 2,344 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 10:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello all, I think it is time someone with the knowledge of modern radios and anti-IED gear do an informational page showing photos of all of the modern radios, their antennas, anti-IED gear, its associated control boxes and a brief explanation of what each does (within OPSEC constraints). I see all of these antennas and other items in kits and AM, but have no idea what they do. There are many of you who have a working knowledge of this topic, and it would be great to have it all in one post!
Regards,
Eric
I completely agree with this. I look at my modern armor and would like to know what all the stuff is, where it should be placed if a kit doesn't come with it and you are using AM and what vehicles use/had this stuff and which didn't depending on time frame.
jasmils
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
Armorama: 745 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 01:27 PM UTC
In one of my sets, I called a part of it "DUKE", thing is, it's not actually the DUKE system. Another set had quite a few different sorts of "antenna's" but none were named.
That is all you need to know as modelers. Sometimes the name, but mostly just what it looks like, what colour it is, when it was fitted and how it is fitted, not what it does or how it works.
Same for radio's.
That is all you need to know as modelers. Sometimes the name, but mostly just what it looks like, what colour it is, when it was fitted and how it is fitted, not what it does or how it works.
Same for radio's.
WXerock
#450
Joined: July 19, 2015
KitMaker: 672 posts
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 01:44 PM UTC
Jason, I can't disagree with you more. I, as a model builder have a natural curiosity that leads me to want to know more about the subjects I model. If that is all you need to know, then that is your prerogative. I and many other modelers want to know more. I don't think you or anybody else can say what is right for me. I am a researcher. Part of my research is learning everything I can about every part of the system. I pour over photos for hours looking for details that I want to get right. I want to know what box goes where and what wire connects it to the other boxes in the system. I don't really care what the wire does, I just want to know I got it right.
What you are saying, basically, is to just build what is in the box, and don't worry about the fact that the antenna mount is the wrong one for that radio or don't worry that the radio is wrong for that timeframe. You are right in saying I don't have a need to know what the system name is, if it is classified knowledge. That is just a gee whiz fact that I like to know. You are reading way too much into my comment. I do not even want to know how a certain radio works, but knowing it is a Harris or ASIP, which is right for an M-ATV or M1165 GMV is something that makes me feel I have done my research. The whole point of this site is for us to help each other out, not point out what you think I need to know.
Regards,
Eric
What you are saying, basically, is to just build what is in the box, and don't worry about the fact that the antenna mount is the wrong one for that radio or don't worry that the radio is wrong for that timeframe. You are right in saying I don't have a need to know what the system name is, if it is classified knowledge. That is just a gee whiz fact that I like to know. You are reading way too much into my comment. I do not even want to know how a certain radio works, but knowing it is a Harris or ASIP, which is right for an M-ATV or M1165 GMV is something that makes me feel I have done my research. The whole point of this site is for us to help each other out, not point out what you think I need to know.
Regards,
Eric
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 01:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
In one of my sets, I called a part of it "DUKE", thing is, it's not actually the DUKE system. Another set had quite a few different sorts of "antenna's" but none were named.
That is all you need to know as modelers. Sometimes the name, but mostly just what it looks like, what colour it is, when it was fitted and how it is fitted, not what it does or how it works.
Exactly. And stuff like this kind of antenna was used with this kind of box on that type of vehicle during that period by that branch of US military. That's all we need as modelers!
The_musings_of_NBNoG
Joined: January 08, 2012
KitMaker: 520 posts
Armorama: 516 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 03:38 PM UTC
Which dial does what ... is not necessary
What cable does what ... is not necessary
that there IS a dial
and that there IS a cable
and the placement thereof ... could help my modeling skills.
and I'm sure someone other than a modeler will butt in and ask for the removal any thing classified.
( I mean for real... how many people other than modelers visit quite a few foreign sites a day, looking for pictures of military hardware and such? This is not noted and tracked? ..... It freakin better be! )
((Three years ago I was following some great google inspired leads [I was looking for M1128 slat pics] I stumbled upon some pics of Strykers ..
..from above...
WOW ,, I thought...I've never seen this angle before!
and {it seemed like my brain was on molasses}...why would one have a list of images showing vehicle profiles from above??
,
I looked up at the address bar just in time to see I was on a Chinese military site ..just then my OS and whole tower crashed.....
and It has taken a few years to emotionally recover from that loss))
What cable does what ... is not necessary
that there IS a dial
and that there IS a cable
and the placement thereof ... could help my modeling skills.
and I'm sure someone other than a modeler will butt in and ask for the removal any thing classified.
( I mean for real... how many people other than modelers visit quite a few foreign sites a day, looking for pictures of military hardware and such? This is not noted and tracked? ..... It freakin better be! )
((Three years ago I was following some great google inspired leads [I was looking for M1128 slat pics] I stumbled upon some pics of Strykers ..
..from above...
WOW ,, I thought...I've never seen this angle before!
and {it seemed like my brain was on molasses}...why would one have a list of images showing vehicle profiles from above??
,
I looked up at the address bar just in time to see I was on a Chinese military site ..just then my OS and whole tower crashed.....
and It has taken a few years to emotionally recover from that loss))
jasmils
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
Armorama: 745 posts
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2016 - 04:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Jason, I can't disagree with you more. I, as a model builder have a natural curiosity that leads me to want to know more about the subjects I model.
I manufacture Modern Australian Amour, my curiosity and eye for detail is much, much higher than yours. I strive to get everything it right. And on the odd occasion something is incorrect or is pointed out, the offending part is changed as soon as possible, instructions amended, and in some cases, the part is sent out free of charge.
Quoted Text
If that is all you need to know, then that is your prerogative. I and many other modelers want to know more. I don't think you or anybody else can say what is right for me.
No, it’s not my prerogative, it’s a fact of the worlds we live in. I will not go into the hoops I have to go through, to produce some things. Suffice to say, it is checked first.
I have in the last 8 years sold a couple of hundred ASLAV kits, all with ECM in the kit. Not one customer has ever asked what it does or how it works.
Quoted Text
I am a researcher. Part of my research is learning everything I can about every part of the system. I pour over photos for hours looking for details that I want to get right. I want to know what box goes where and what wire connects it to the other boxes in the system. I don't really care what the wire does, I just want to know I got it right. .
See my first answer in this post. Not to mention years I have served in, on, and around the vehicle’s I model, and the countless hours spent on my kits to get them right. I challenge you, and any one else for that matter to fault any kit I have ever produced. In saying that, I have intentionally made some parts inaccurate, only to hide it's true nature. Some customers who have even worked with it have not spotted the inaccuracy.
Quoted Text
What you are saying, basically, is to just build what is in the box, and don't worry about the fact that the antenna mount is the wrong one for that radio or don't worry that the radio is wrong for that timeframe.
No, I never said just build it out of the box and go with it. However, I do apologise, I should have entered more detail in my original post. As it looks like visually identical to “DUKE”, I named it so for the kit. Those in the know are aware of why I named it thisway. Modellers don’t need to know what the system is.
Unless you know someone who works with it, and is prepared to tell you, it will remain OPSEC. Some items have a general name, such as DUKE, Shakespeare, Harris, Raven, or Boomerang. But the systems are updated and changed all the time.
Quoted Text
You are right in saying I don't have a need to know what the system name is, if it is classified knowledge. That is just a gee whiz fact that I like to know.
Correct and too bad.
Quoted Text
You are reading way too much into my comment. I do not even want to know how a certain radio works, but knowing it is a Harris or ASIP, which is right for an M-ATV or M1165 GMV is something that makes me feel I have done my research. The whole point of this site is for us to help each other out, not point out what you think I need to know.
Regards,
Eric
Then in that case, your research should advise you whose kits are correct for that particular time period. Any Publications/ manufacturer that have this information, have not just decided to publish/produce it, they will fact check first, and make sure that it can be published.
The Australian Army (and we will talk about Afghanistan here for example), and most of the other Coalition Forces use pretty much the same ECM and certain radio's harnesses. I have kits that have not been released until a new system had been issued and the old version was no longer in service.
There are elements of bolt parts issued to some USMC vehicles that also have been fitted to the ASLAV FOV, but I did not release this until the vehicle was no longer used in that AO. Nor have I ever sold it as a USMC part. For two simple facts, first one, OPSEC Operational Security, and the second one, I still have mates serving and I will not endanger them for the sake of a few dollars.
This site is for the building of scale models kits. Those in the know will advise modellers if a curtain plastic kit or after market kit is correct or not.
WXerock
#450
Joined: July 19, 2015
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 668 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 01:02 AM UTC
Jason, again you are reading too much into what this post is meant to be about. A photo gallery of the systems attached to the models, what related hardware is on them, and a range of years that they are used in. That is it. I have no idea who you are. I never called into question your eye for detail. I dislike the fact that you, not knowing me either, can state that you have a better eye than I do for the small things. I meant no disrespect to you. I was just pointing out that some people like to know a bit more about their subjects. That is all. So many posts here devolve into name calling battles where the members question each other's skills and motives.
I think that due to the frequently petty insults that are thrown around here I am going back to being anonymous. Thanks everyone for the help you've given me.
Regards,
Eric
I think that due to the frequently petty insults that are thrown around here I am going back to being anonymous. Thanks everyone for the help you've given me.
Regards,
Eric
rogerjo1
Joined: November 12, 2010
KitMaker: 950 posts
Armorama: 905 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 01:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't want to be the fun police here it would be interesting but I wouldn't want to see explanations of how this stuff works this gear has kept frontline soldiers safe from certain situations for many years now and there's a big reason it's not advertised freely to those that don't operate the equipment.
In terms of components because being rendered in scale I'm sure google images would give results this stuff is still being used and serves a highly important purpose any one advertising in a public forum how and why this stuff works is risking lives of soldiers currently on operations.
I know that sounds dramatic and I probably sound like an idiot but seriously that's the hard cold reality of this stuff, think the Enigma machine and what the outcome was once that was exploited by the allies things turned sour in that department for the Germans real fast different equipment but very same principles in terms of secrecy.
Cheers Ben.
Actually i dont think the enemies in Afghanistan or other places in the world sit and look on modelling website to see how these things is working.. If they want to know that i'm sure they will find that info on other websites... Here you only show how they look like and how the cables should be on them... Not how they working...
It's nothing classified about that i assume...
rogerjo1
Joined: November 12, 2010
KitMaker: 950 posts
Armorama: 905 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 01:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I was or am working on that for you guys.
Thanks Pete, looking forward to see that
fhvn4d
#159
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 803 posts
Armorama: 564 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 05:18 AM UTC
I have to respect the need for OPSEC. I ran convoys under the cover of the duke and rhino, and we were not allowed to take pictures of the systems at ALL. If I described a box with a couple colored lights and an off/on switch, it probably wouldnt amount to much for an extremist or someone looking to copy the tech, but if I posted a picture ( back then) it probably would have helped someone. People who want to defeat a system use WHATEVER means necessary to do so. That includes modelling websites. Some of the training that insurgents use involve scale models of roadways and vehicles (just like the US). One of the greatest threats to coalition forces in OIF and OEF was that people in Iraq and Afghanistan do alot of watching. They watch things going on and they pay attention to details. Simple things like a shoulder patch can mean alot to the enemy of a nation. Case in point, a guy from A-stan knew my unit from the first time it deployed, and was able to welcome us BY UNIT and state when we went back to the same base 4 years later. Dont be ignorant to the fact that someone with the will to find it WILL get the information. Its all a matter of who provides it and how long it takes them to get it. Having said all that... google duke, rhino, chameleon, and boomerang, and you will get most of the info you need already out there as these systems have been in use for years and continue to evolve on a spectrum well beyond what they look like.
*** I also wanna just throw out there that NO ONE seems to model the most visual thing on most if not all convoy security vehicles in Iraq... the wire mit kit... Homemade pipe and wood things that took the power and telephone lines up and over the gunner and any of the anti electronics antenna....
My steed in Iraq...
*** I also wanna just throw out there that NO ONE seems to model the most visual thing on most if not all convoy security vehicles in Iraq... the wire mit kit... Homemade pipe and wood things that took the power and telephone lines up and over the gunner and any of the anti electronics antenna....
My steed in Iraq... 
jasmils
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
Armorama: 745 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 11:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
A photo gallery of the systems attached to the models, what related hardware is on them, and a range of years that they are used in. That is it
And that is all you had to ask for in the original post. I might have even added to it.
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