Hi everyone.

I've been doing a bit of research for a build I'm hoping to start and came across the Asuka M4A1 marked as D-32 "Derby" which is described by Asuka as being from "66th/67th Armored Regiment,2nd Armored Division in Normandy.

I'm hoping it is actually one of the 66th's vehicles as that is the unit I want to depict,at the Battle of Carentan. I'm not sure why they don't know the exact unit,but it is marked very similarly to all the 66th AR shermans I've seen,including yEllon stencilled turret numbers.

The only photo I've found (I have no books on the subject) was on a forum and it was a comment that despite popular belief the vehicle belonged to the 67th AR. There was no reason given for the evidence though.

Does anyone have confirmation of this please?

I guess this is not the thread you're talking about...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1267861134/Reference+Help-+Shermans+in+Normandy

H.P.

No its not, but thank you for posting it.

I still don't understand exactly how they arrive at the conclusion that D-32 is definitely a 67th AR tank in the absence of anything specific?

http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/tanks/sherman/m4a1%2876%29w/ser03.jpg
If "Duke" and "Derby" were in the same company, then "Derby" was also in the 66th Reg. Don't know if this is any help. Above pic is of "Duke" and unit markings are plainly visible.

Thanks,that is a very interesting photo! I think it becomes difficult to link names to units because I recall reading that a lot of names appeared on multiple tanks due to the army issuing a list of 'approved' names from which crew could choose. Not sure if this is true though.

Mike what does Decal #18 say.

That is the bumper code and on US Army vehicles it can tell you Division, Regiment, Company, and Vehicle.

Derek

In Zaloga's Armored Attack 1944 Page 97 they have a picture of Derby D-32 and reports it's part of 33rd Armored of 3rd Armored Division

https://books.google.fr/books?id=U6En6BrcVVYC&pg=PA79&hl=fr&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

(same picture as in the ML thread BTW...)

H.P.

Mike,

Also note the 70th Tank Battalion was an independent tank battalion, and not part of the 2nd Armored Division.

Derek

In Zaloga's "D-Day Tank Warfare" by Concord, on pg. 30, he identifies Derby as 32 nd Armored Regt., of 3rd Div.

This is getting very confusing!

Derek, I've found the decal sheet thanks to an Armorama review on Scalemates, and decal #18 and #19 contains options for either a 2-66 or 2-67 tank...which is in line with what Asuka says, ie 2nd Armored Division, 66th Armored Regiment or 67th Armored Regiment.

As far as I can tell, 2-67th did not exist but should rather read 3-67th.

During WW2 the 2nd Armored and 3rd Armored Division were know as Heavy Armored Divisions or Heavy Configuration. The standard US Army Armored Division from '44 until the end of the war were "Light" which meant 3 Tank Battalions, usually numbered Separately (4th Armored Division had the 8th, 35th and 37th Tank Battalions) the 2nd the Heavy Armored Division had Regiments that were broken up into separate battalions with no Regimental HQ but kept their Regimental ID (1/66th, 2/66, 3/66th, 1/67th, 2/67th, & 3/67th Armored) the odd duck was the 1st Armored Division which was heavy then reconfigured to Light and had both Regiments and Tank battalions during the war.

One thing in Armored Knights, they mentioned how when they found out about the re-configure and they weren't affected because they were in combat they swapped companies, which were know as A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H, & I around to get close to the Tank Battalions format and they didn't change company names. A,B, & C were Light Tanks, and D through I were Medium Tanks, and the battalions didn't have the standard structure. I've not seen my copy in a while so I can't find you the Breakdown and when they swapped.

Derek

This might help this is the "bullet point version" but this is the official US Army history.

http://www.history.army.mil/documents/ETO-OB/2AD-ETO.htm

What is interesting that 1/66th Armored was detached to the 101st Airborne Division from 16th June to 28th June 1944. On Wikipedia which I don't 100% Trust it is stated that the 101st Airborne was supported by CCA of the 2nd Armored which included 2/66th Armored, and was cited to a book called Mustang General.

Derek

Hi Derek. That info is great,thank you for posting it!

In "The Armored Campaign in Normandy " by Stephen Napier,it states that CCA (consisting of 2nd battalion 66th Armored Regiment 2nd Armored Division were attached to the 101st on 13th June 1944 to support their defence of Carnan, in particular D company ,later in the day relieved by F company.

It's certainly not impossible that 1-66th were attached to the 101st a few days later though.

Thanks again for your help!

Hi Mike,

the 1/66th is gospel, that's directed from the US Army Source I attached a link to.

Derek

It's a very interesting document,thank you once again for posting it.