Hi everyone,
Just a quick question,
Does anyone know if all Shermans (US M4s and British Firefly Vc's in particular) had the .50 cal fitted?
I refer specifically to two photos, one of Firefly Vc "Allakeefek" of the 4th CLY at Villers Bocage showing no .50 cal installed, and another of "10" on Omaha Beach on D-Day which is extremely grainy but doesn't seem to have a .50 cal installed either.
Thanks in advance for any info!
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Normandy Shermans-.50 cal always fitted?
Vierville
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 384 posts
Armorama: 372 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 10:29 PM UTC
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 11:12 PM UTC
Not always. There was actually a thread about this on ML a few weeks ago.
Some years back I was in comms with a chap who had served in the Irish Gds in 21AG and he said that as the .50 receiver was always in the way when trying to exit speedily and there wasn't much air threat either (apart from 2ATAF!), his sqn buried its in a hole in a Normandie field.
There are photos of British tanks with .50s and .30s fitted to the cupola but they tend to be early in the campaign. A scroll through the IWM archive in date sequence would probably give you an idea of likelihood of seeing them in a particular timeframe but it is likely to be a function of orders within a unit. In the British Army at least, crews do not have the authority to dump issued weapons on their own initiative.
Some years back I was in comms with a chap who had served in the Irish Gds in 21AG and he said that as the .50 receiver was always in the way when trying to exit speedily and there wasn't much air threat either (apart from 2ATAF!), his sqn buried its in a hole in a Normandie field.
There are photos of British tanks with .50s and .30s fitted to the cupola but they tend to be early in the campaign. A scroll through the IWM archive in date sequence would probably give you an idea of likelihood of seeing them in a particular timeframe but it is likely to be a function of orders within a unit. In the British Army at least, crews do not have the authority to dump issued weapons on their own initiative.
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Monday, May 02, 2016 - 03:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi everyone,
Just a quick question,
Does anyone know if all Shermans (US M4s and British Firefly Vc's in particular) had the .50 cal fitted?
I refer specifically to two photos, one of Firefly Vc "Allakeefek" of the 4th CLY at Villers Bocage showing no .50 cal installed, and another of "10" on Omaha Beach on D-Day which is extremely grainy but doesn't seem to have a .50 cal installed either.
Thanks in advance for any info!
The short answer is no as not all had them removed.
The British and Canadian formations frequently removed the 50 Cal as they saw it as unwieldy, unnecessary and it could block the sole exit point from the Sherman turrets where three or even five of the crew had to use the same exit point. Anything that slowed this down was a problem. If the air threat was great then its value was seen to be worth keeping. There are many shots showing the 50 Fitted in Normandy but quite a lot without it. It wasn't a policy one way or the other but more a Unit/Crew policy
Here is the ML thread however it must be noted that this is discussing British Shermans across the whole war:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1458616845/last-1459137601/View+Thread
Al
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Monday, May 02, 2016 - 07:45 AM UTC
I've been listening to recordings of memoirs of US tankers. One, whose unit went into Normandy, said as the TC, he quickly found a reason to lose his .50cal from the Sherman turret roof. It wasn't just the Brits who didn't like the .50. At least in this one tanker's case, he did the same thing.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Monday, May 02, 2016 - 10:25 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi everyone,
Just a quick question,
Does anyone know if all Shermans (US M4s and British Firefly Vc's in particular) had the .50 cal fitted?
I refer specifically to two photos, one of Firefly Vc "Allakeefek" of the 4th CLY at Villers Bocage showing no .50 cal installed, and another of "10" on Omaha Beach on D-Day which is extremely grainy but doesn't seem to have a .50 cal installed either.
Thanks in advance for any info!
The British did not generally favor the external MG .50 mount. Most US units did, not as an antiaircraft weapon, but as an anti-ambush or anti-sniper weapon. A quick burst into a suspicious patch of debris or vegetation could knock out an antitank gun or panzerfaust operator before they had a chance to fire. During the rapid advance following the Normandy breakout, this was often critical.
One anecdote tells of a truck unit pinned down by a German sniper concealed in a tree. A tank came by and used the .50 to slice off the upper third of a whole line of pine trees, and the sniper fell to his death.
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