For such a ubiquitous weapon, it took a long time to get a modern kit of this gun. There was the Storm resin kit and the EE/Skif kit (same kit? I am not sure)
Now we have two and they are noticeably different.

Meng offers the gun in their 'Toyota' pick up kit and in the AA weapons set and Trumpter's comes as a stand alone kit 02348 and with the Gaz truck 01017. I am sure given their variant production in the past, it will show up in more boxes as well, perhaps on the Mtlb chassis.

I was very excited for the release when Trumpeter's stand alone kit came out, built it up to the sight assembly and lost steam. (more later)
The Meng pickup and gun came up to the top of the pile and got built (warts and all) and now the Trumpeter kit is back on the bench.

My opinions are mine alone, I paid for both kits.
Beware, page will contain crummy phone camera pics, taken in bad light, by a non-photographer.

Overall impressions:

Meng: More simplified, but more the more buildable of the two.
But the kit is not without warts, too many mold seams on the tiny gunsight pieces, simplified details in the footwell area and triggers. Charging handles at the rear of the gun not included.
The Meng gun is not posable, but if you are inclined Terry Ashley describes how to modify the kit to be posed over on PMMS.

Pluses, includes extra ammo cans and a belt of ammo. Also includes pieces to show the gun at several elevations.

Trumpeter. More detailed and a higher parts count for the guns, cradle, sights and base but odd parts connection choices make for a more challenging build.

Pluses, theoretically posable gun, includes the tubular guard over the sight assembly not included in the Meng kit. Better detailed in the triggers and footwell area. Includes individual ammo rounds and wood blocks to pose the gun in the back of a Gaz.

Photo of the nearly finished Meng kit, yes, I need to add the PE handle on the end of the ammo box and the gunlaying wheel between the seats. The seam on the ammo box end has also been sorted out


In progress photos of the Trumpeter parts.

Which highlights gripe 1 for the Trumpy kit..
There in step 7 the C52 to C23 connection is just a butt joint!! For the main optical sight unit. Not exactly an inconspicuous bit on the kit.
No aid in alignment, no pin, nothing.


Uncool Trumpeter, uncool..

A modification to the build order was to mount the sight base on the rear gun cradle wall BEFORE attaching all the rest of the sight bits. This would have helped with the Meng kit, so I am doing it here as well


more detail on the recommended modifications to the Meng kit in the dioramas forum "Who Ordered the can of Whup a$$?"
http://armorama.com/forums/248897&page=1

more later

Mike

Guns:

Meng


Trumpeter





The Meng guns themselves have a better fit to their base. But have more mold lines to scrape.

I am not completely sure I got the Trumpeter guns into the tray correctly, the fit is less than positive.
The guns should lean inwards to the center of the tray, but that is not obvious in the instructions.

The Meng guns fit better at the front end as well. I had to use Tenax to get the front end of the Trumpeter guns in place.

The parts count in the Trumpeter guns is higher, including the charging handles (?? someone in the know let me know if that is what they are) at the top rear of the guns are not included in the Meng kit.
Meng molds the flash suppressors onto the barrel ends, losing the vane detail, Trumpeter provides brass pieces to slide over the ends.

Trumpeter's looped pull handles on the front outside of the guns (Function??) are more finely molded here as well. Separate parts in both kits. Meng shows theirs oriented vertically, Trumpeter horizontally. Reference photos show that these sometimes hang loose from their cables.

and


The small looped fitting at the very front edge of the gun base ( some part of locking the gun itself to the base)in these photos is a separate, open part in the Trumpeter kit, closed in the Meng.

The gun handling handles at the front of the barrels are better on the Meng kit, Trumpeters are two separate butt-joined parts and mine dried out of alignment.

Advantage: Trumpeter for detail (points off for lack of positive fit on the guns)

Next up: Ammo boxes

Hi Mike,
I belive the looped pull handles on the front outside of the guns are for chambering the first round when loading a new belt of ammo, they are on the ends of cables looped around those pulleys seen on the bottom of the cannon mounting tray in one of your photos. The the handle at the top rear of the reciever is for opening the feed cover or it may be just for lifting the back end of the cannon, not sure. You'll find construction details here http://www.kalasnyikov.hu/dokumentumok/23mmes_zszu4_onj_legv_gu_4resz_azp23_legv_gu.pdf

and here http://www.kalasnyikov.hu/dokumentumok/23mmeszszu4_onjaro_legv_gu_m_leir_kez_ut_5resz.pdf

Sean

Sean, thanks. That makes sense on both counts.
Bookmarked the pages for sure.
If I ever decide to go full-AMS ("Never go full AMS..") that's the one reference to have. (nvm.. had to let the whole thing download first..)


Mike

Mike,
reading back thru your earlier posts in this thread, the Storm Miniatures resin kit has nothing in common with the EE kit AFAIK.
I'd started this a while back and while researching the subject came upon a website selling instructional posters with really nice cut away views of the various parts of the system, can seem to find it anymore unfortunately. By the way, you mentioned ammo boxes are up next? http://machinegun-belts.com/box23mm.jpg

Sean

Sean,
Sorry, poorly worded on my part. The storm kit is resin and the EE/Skif kit was the one I thought was the same molding.
Great find on the ammo box.
Short version. Trumpeter wins. Meng provides two spare boxes, but the Trump ones are much better detailed, EXCEPT the outer side handles are seperate PE bits in the Meng and are molded solid on Trumpeter.

Ammo boxes, not much text here I'll let the pictures and instructions speak pretty much for themselves.

the real deal from Sean's link above


Trumpeter:
Instructions


built up


Meng




Trumpeter wins for detail and parts breakdown, no box end seams like Meng.
plusses for Meng, spare boxes (2) and hollow outer edge handles (Pe parts)

It looks like the Meng boxes are noticeably narrower, is this the case ?

Sean

Sean,
I was out at our local model club meeting tonight, but I will take a side by side picture and compare measurements tomorrow.

Good eye Sean,



Anybody got real world measurements of a Zu-23 ammo box?

(edit) Found this
http://www.redstar-militaria.de/en/ammo-box-for-zu-23-anti-aircraft-autocannon.html

Dimensions:

52 cm long
27 cm wide
27 cm high

Brings me to
1/35 X 520mm =14.85mm long
1/35 X 270mm = 7.7 mm wide
1/35 x 270mm = 7.7 mm tall

But the measurement description does not say if it includes the end handles in the length of the box , I did not.

So yes, Trumpeter's box is closer to the right width and Meng's is too narrow.
I have access to a better quality caliper at work and will get more accurate measurements, but Sean is right. Meng = too narrow.

Hi Mike,
interesting, thanks for the pictures and good find on the dimensions. See here, http://www.modelersalliance.com/forum/the-real-thing/147310-zu-23
so it looks like there's a type of box that looks similar to the ZU box but is significantly narrower, is this what the Meng kit is depicting?

Sean

Sean, I am not sure.
I will have to go measure the boxes actually glued onto the Meng kit tomorrow morning.