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M48 co-axial ammo box photos needed
JSSVIII
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Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 03:53 PM UTC
Hello, does anyone have any photos of the ammo storage box for the co-axial machine gun on the M48 tank? I have searched, but only found a couple of partial photos from some interior walkarounds.

Thanks for looking - John
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#013
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Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 09:16 PM UTC
Only one I can find is here, but I guess you found it.
210cav
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Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 09:40 PM UTC
John-- the coaxial machine gun fed off the white boxes arrayed on the interior. These were referred to as "banana boxes." They were arrayed around the wall of the turret. The photo line up Tom sent has a picture of one. They are also on the floor and contains both coax (30 cal/7.62mm depending on coax MG type) and space for 50 cal ammo. I think some others will pipe in on the size and location, but IMHO, they would be tough to duplicate. French will no doubt have some pictures from his unending stash.....
Hope this helps
DJ
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 10:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

French will no doubt have some pictures from his unending stash.....


I'm afraid I have to skip my turn...

H.P.

210cav
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 12:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

French will no doubt have some pictures from his unending stash.....


I'm afraid I have to skip my turn...

H.P.



John-- now you got a challenge on your hands, Frenchy does not have any photos
DJ
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 12:40 AM UTC
Just came across a view partially showing the boxes located on the turret floor :



Full size

H.P.
HermannB
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 01:08 AM UTC
A detailed walkaround of the turret trainer from Stammheim Museum:
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/dieter_krause/m48_tower_trainer/index.php?Page=1
210cav
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 03:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A detailed walkaround of the turret trainer from Stammheim Museum:
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/dieter_krause/m48_tower_trainer/index.php?Page=1


John-- Those are great photos and clearly show the banana boxes on the turret floor. Unfortunately, the cut out precludes viewing of the loaders side of the turret (left interior). On the M48 and M 60 series, he was responsible for the co axial machine gun functions whereas on the M 1 series it is the gunner (right side of the turret). Age has clouded my recollection, but if I recall the coax box is the same box (location and size) as that of the M-60. You might search for an M-60 interior shot to see what the item looks like. But, I think you can see from the floor mounted boxes the challenge in trying to replicate the interior banana boxes and adjusting arms. There are guys on this site who can do it, so I would encourage you to just keep posting.
Trust this is of some assistance
DJ
JSSVIII
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 03:49 AM UTC
Thanks for the help guys, I have seen those photos, and I should have been more clear that it was the banana box, which is located on the left turret wall, that I was interested in. In the picture Tom pointed out you can see everything but the end (the side opposite the feed port), and that's the missing detail I need. I hope someone can turn up something.
TankSGT
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 03:52 AM UTC
I don't have a picture yet but the coax ammo box was rectangular in the 60A1 and I believe it was the same in the 48. I crewed both tanks. It was fixed to the left turret wall. If memory serves it held around 2000 rounds. I with try to check once back home.
JSSVIII
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 04:01 AM UTC
Thanks Thomas, I would be interested in knowing how many rounds it held.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 06:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't have a picture yet but the coax ammo box was rectangular in the 60A1 and I believe it was the same in the 48. I crewed both tanks. It was fixed to the left turret wall. If memory serves it held around 2000 rounds. I with try to check once back home.


I remember it held 2000 rounds because you were supposed to link the contents of 10 boxes together.

It was rectangular with a lid that had a feed chute leading to the coax.

I had nightmares about loading that thing which I guess is why I remember it.

For what it's worth, the box on the M1 was still on the loader's side of the turret. The ammo was fed through a tray over the main gun to the gunner who actually loaded the machine gun. The loader loaded the box, the gunner was responsible for the weapon. Please don't make that poor overworked gunner responsible for another thing.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 05:30 PM UTC
You can see a few more centimeters of the box in this picture :

http://svsm.org/gallery/m48/IMGP0469

H.P.
210cav
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 05:34 PM UTC
John-- the basic answer to your question is that the floor had banana boxes as shown while the left side of the turret wall had the rectangular box for the coax ammo. I would agree that it held at least 200 rounds of either 30 cal or 7.62mm ammo. But, it was a white rectangle box with the black stencil "COAX AMMO" on it. On the M-1 series the coax has a feed system that loads from the left side while the gun is on the right side. And, yes the gunner is responsible for the weapon (TCGST responsibility). If I recall that holds 10000 rounds for the M-240.
Hope this helps
DJ
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, July 18, 2016 - 08:23 PM UTC
Would this help ?





H.P.
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 - 01:47 AM UTC
On a side note, the same TM shows different boxes on the turret floor :


H.P.
JSSVIII
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Posted: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 - 03:21 AM UTC
Thanks Henri-Pierre, those really help!

DJ, I really appreciate your help also, but I think you might have it backwards, I'm getting the impression that the coax ready ammo box on the wall of the M48 was the "Banana" box, due to the shape, not the floor boxes. You and Stephen are correct about the M1 coax, we were responsible for the gun, and the loader was responsible for the ammo.

Thanks again guys, and if anybody runs across any more photos, please share them - John
Bravo1102
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Posted: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 - 05:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

(TCGST responsibility). If I recall that holds 10000 rounds for the M-240.
Hope this helps
DJ

I was an instructor/evaluator so I administered the Tank Crew Gunnery skills Test well as being a poor overworked gunner jack-of-all-trades and repository of useless information. The gunner is responsible for the weapon. The loader puts the bullets in the box and feeds the belt through the tray to the gunner who puts it in the weapon.

What is specifically called a banana box is up to the experience of each individual. I generally called the floor boxes banana boxes and the other the feed box, since that was where the coax ammo fed into the coax. Besides one obviously looked curved on the floor and the other was curved along the turret face which one was not as apt to notice as it was facing you. If that makes sense.

But the difference between a 60 and a M48, the floor boxes were curved too which it looks like they weren't on a M48A3.
210cav
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Posted: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 - 06:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

(TCGST responsibility). If I recall that holds 10000 rounds for the M-240.
Hope this helps
DJ

I was an instructor/evaluator so I administered the Tank Crew Gunnery skills Test well as being a poor overworked gunner jack-of-all-trades and repository of useless information. The gunner is responsible for the weapon. The loader puts the bullets in the box and feeds the belt through the tray to the gunner who puts it in the weapon.

What is specifically called a banana box is up to the experience of each individual. I generally called the floor boxes banana boxes and the other the feed box, since that was where the coax ammo fed into the coax. Besides one obviously looked curved on the floor and the other was curved along the turret face which one was not as apt to notice as it was facing you. If that makes sense.

But the difference between a 60 and a M48, the floor boxes were curved too which it looks like they weren't on a M48A3.



Who can argue those points....thanks
JSSVIII
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 - 03:55 AM UTC
Thanks for setting me straight guys, so now I think I've got it, on an M48 the curved ammo box is on the turret side, but on an M60 the curved ammo boxes are on the floor. I remember hearing the term, but never gave it much thought til recently.

P.S. DJ, I did not mean any offence, my post may have sounded more like a statement than the question/clarification request it was meant to be.

Thanks again guys - John
210cav
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Posted: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 - 05:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text



P.S. DJ, I did not mean any offence, my post may have sounded more like a statement than the question/clarification request it was meant to be.




John-- Whoa! Buddy, I never take offense during these forum discussions. At my age, I can clearly remember items from thirty years ago on the M-41 Walker Bulldog, but today I probably will forget to zip my fly several times during the day. This was a well managed discussion and no one should take offense at anything. Plus, Frenchy (as usual) came through with diagrams!
Happy modeling
DJ
JSSVIII
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 04:16 AM UTC
Great to hear DJ, thanks again for all the help guys!
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