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Tracks & Troops debacle
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 08:31 PM UTC
A little over 2 weeks ago I ordered, for the first time, a couple of items from Tracks & Troops, a Czech Republic store I believe. The items I ordered were not indicated "out of stock". Almost weeks passed without any response so I contacted the owner and inquired about my order status; if payment had gone through, and if the order had been completed and sent yet, as I had read it was not customary for many Eastern European stores to send confirmations. I received a seemingly angry response starting off, "I am no thief...blah... blah...blah!", and, "you won't be charged until the order is filled", basically accusing me of accusing him of robbery. If, after 2 weeks, he didn't fill my order, he obviously didn't have the items in stock. I emailed him back and tried to calm him down by explaining I was just asking for an order update, etc. He then responded by continuing his rant and claiming I thought he was trying to cheat me. What is wrong with this guy? I just emailed him back and cancelled my order as I didn't need this kind of attitude. Has anyone else dealt with this individual, or store? People like that are really aggravating!
slug955
Joined: November 10, 2013
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 09:19 PM UTC
Never dealt with that firm but have had similar experiences with Google Translate with others. Though having said that it can be dangerous with other English speakers who do not understand British humour...... 
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 09:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
A little over 2 weeks ago I ordered, for the first time, a couple of items from Tracks & Troops, a Czech Republic store I believe. The items I ordered were not indicated "out of stock". Almost weeks passed without any response so I contacted the owner and inquired about my order status; if payment had gone through, and if the order had been completed and sent yet, as I had read it was not customary for many Eastern European stores to send confirmations. I received a seemingly angry response starting off, "I am no thief...blah... blah...blah!", and, "you won't be charged until the order is filled", basically accusing me of accusing him of robbery. If, after 2 weeks, he didn't fill my order, he obviously didn't have the items in stock. I emailed him back and tried to calm him down by explaining I was just asking for an order update, etc. He then responded by continuing his rant and claiming I thought he was trying to cheat me. What is wrong with this guy? I just emailed him back and cancelled my order as I didn't need this kind of attitude. Has anyone else dealt with this individual, or store? People like that are really aggravating!
I have ordered there twice. It took a while the first time until I heard back from them. It was to let me know that some of the things I wanted were not available (out of production). I was fine with receiving the rest, which arrived a few days later (in Germany). It is true that you don't get charged until shipment. Just use a payment method where you have to "pull the trigger" like e.g. paypal, if you want to make sure you don't pay too much.
The whole process took a few weeks, but in the end I got what I wanted and they sure have the most complete offer of Braille scale stuff I've seen around.
In May this year, I ordered a second time. Even being forewarned about the way they do business, I got impatient at some point and asked what happened to my order. I think I sent like 3 e-mails in 3 weeks, never hearing back from them. I had already given up on my order of admittedly odd stuff, when just a few days ago I receveid a mail saying that my order was finally ready, and asking for the payment.
I paid immediately, and received notice the next day that my order was being shipped.
Conclusion: It may take a (very ong) while, but it seems like you get your stuff. They don't make you pay up-front, so no refunds necessary. My order was nicely packaged to prevent any damage. Don't use them if you're in a hurry, but rather to get the stuff noone else has (anymore)...
They are indeed not the most polite people around (am not even asking for freindly), but the urge to get the stuff I want is more important than some rude behaviour by people of a different culture.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 10:22 PM UTC
I'm used to long waits for orders; it usually takes 3 weeks just from US to Canada. But the service is always friendly and polite. I will not put up with a long (longer) wait with rude and insulting behavior in answer to questions. I'll just bite the bullet and do without.
firstcircle
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,249 posts
Armorama: 2,007 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 11:35 PM UTC
Yes, I've used them (him, Milan Vins) a few times and have on one occasion had exactly the same experience as described by Nicolas. If stuff is in stock if gets sent pretty quickly, if it is not then there may a delay, but correct, no money is taken up front, only when it ships.
Communication doesn't seem to be top of the agenda, but at least he doesn't forget... I admit I did forget one of my orders myself (completely unnecessary impulse purchase) but it turned up months later, quite possibly when some bloke in Germany or Czech had got around to casting some more SdKfz250 track units...
I know on one occasion a few years ago he did send an email apologising for delays and saying that he had experienced some health issues that sounded quite serious.
He does however stock lots of stuff that is hard to find elsewhere.
Communication doesn't seem to be top of the agenda, but at least he doesn't forget... I admit I did forget one of my orders myself (completely unnecessary impulse purchase) but it turned up months later, quite possibly when some bloke in Germany or Czech had got around to casting some more SdKfz250 track units...
I know on one occasion a few years ago he did send an email apologising for delays and saying that he had experienced some health issues that sounded quite serious.
He does however stock lots of stuff that is hard to find elsewhere.
spacewolfdad
Joined: May 23, 2010
KitMaker: 642 posts
Armorama: 593 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 12:17 AM UTC
I have bought stuff off Milan, sometimes it takes a while to materialise. This is probably due to him having to get hold of the stuff himself. He is a one man band and you can't expect him to be the same as a mega-corporation. If you order well in advance of when you actually need the stuff it isn't a bind waiting for it. He has some nice stuff in his inventory and stuff you can't get easily elsewhere. A bit of patience is what is required, but you will get your stuff eventually.
All the best,
Paul
All the best,
Paul
Powder
Joined: October 08, 2015
KitMaker: 33 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 03:18 AM UTC
The problem I have with him is that he lists items on his website that aren't in stock, and possibly never will be. It's not just him, there's plenty of other sites around who do the same. You think you've found what you need, so you stop looking elsewhere, let ebay auctions slip by etc, only to find after considerable delay that it's not in stock.
I've had stuff on 'backorder' with Milan for months. If he comes through with the goods, I will honour my side of the deal to purchase, but I certainly wouldn't order from Milan again.
I've had stuff on 'backorder' with Milan for months. If he comes through with the goods, I will honour my side of the deal to purchase, but I certainly wouldn't order from Milan again.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 04:07 AM UTC
The issue is not the waiting time, or whether or not the items are in stock, but his extremely rude manners.
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 - 01:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The problem I have with him is that he lists items on his website that aren't in stock, and possibly never will be. It's not just him, there's plenty of other sites around who do the same. You think you've found what you need, so you stop looking elsewhere, let ebay auctions slip by etc, only to find after considerable delay that it's not in stock.
I've had stuff on 'backorder' with Milan for months. If he comes through with the goods, I will honour my side of the deal to purchase, but I certainly wouldn't order from Milan again.
If it's any consolation to you, listing products as available when they are not is contrary to European Union legislation. I deal with such matters in my line of work... I wonder how the shop owner can continue doing this. In other EU countries, this behaviour would long have been forbidden...
firstcircle
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,249 posts
Armorama: 2,007 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 05:09 PM UTC
Nicolas, I expect you know much more about this than me; what I could find on fulfilment of orders under distance selling regs (at least in the UK) is that vendors are obliged to deliver within a statutory 30 days from receipt of the order and that if they do not deliver then the purchaser has a right to a full refund.
However, that suggests that it relates to orders where a payment has already been made at the time of the order, which is not the case with Tracks & Troops. In fact his "Conditions of Use" explicitly state that
Any displayed information on the www.tracks-n-tropps.eu/shop does not constitute a contractual offer, but a purchase offer which conforms with the present general conditions. The Contractor expresses its willingness to enter into a contract by sending the Purchaser acceptance of his order by e-mail.
So he is operating in such a way that if he doesn't have an item advertised he will try to obtain it for you and will then ask for payment only when he has it ready to dispatch, and that on receipt of payment he will dispatch it. He only regards the order as contractual if you ask him to send an email confirming the order, in which case he may tell you that he doesn't have the item in stock (I don't know if that is the case as I never asked him that when ordering).
Not sure whether that is within regs or not, but I think it normally is the case with mail order that you pay up front and enter into a contract to purchase the item and the seller to supply. Even with Ebay you pay PayPal up front I believe and they hold the money in escrow until the goods are dispatched. But in this case it seems more like a purchase request that may or may not happen, but you will only be charged when it has become definitely possible to fulfil.
However, that suggests that it relates to orders where a payment has already been made at the time of the order, which is not the case with Tracks & Troops. In fact his "Conditions of Use" explicitly state that
Any displayed information on the www.tracks-n-tropps.eu/shop does not constitute a contractual offer, but a purchase offer which conforms with the present general conditions. The Contractor expresses its willingness to enter into a contract by sending the Purchaser acceptance of his order by e-mail.
So he is operating in such a way that if he doesn't have an item advertised he will try to obtain it for you and will then ask for payment only when he has it ready to dispatch, and that on receipt of payment he will dispatch it. He only regards the order as contractual if you ask him to send an email confirming the order, in which case he may tell you that he doesn't have the item in stock (I don't know if that is the case as I never asked him that when ordering).
Not sure whether that is within regs or not, but I think it normally is the case with mail order that you pay up front and enter into a contract to purchase the item and the seller to supply. Even with Ebay you pay PayPal up front I believe and they hold the money in escrow until the goods are dispatched. But in this case it seems more like a purchase request that may or may not happen, but you will only be charged when it has become definitely possible to fulfil.
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