Does anyone have a reference picture for the "69th Armored Regiment" scheme depicted in the kit? So far, any pictures I've found show M60A1s with the octagonal track pads, as opposed to the kit supplied T97E2 chevron tracks, and I'd rather not get AM tracks.
I must assume that one is a late-version too, unless pictures show contrary to that. If so, does anyone have reference pictures of a painting/marking scheme that's accurate for a early M60A1?
Also, sorry for my second started post being about this kit too, I've just had no luck finding anything more than a single front-on picture of an M60A1 with T97E2 tracks in US service, and I must assume someone has a few I didnt see?
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AFV Club M60A1 Kit Markings?
Shalta
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 06:00 AM UTC
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 07:29 AM UTC
What do you mean? The chevron track was standard on M60s until the mid 1970s. Both the US Army schemes in the Afv-club kit should have chevron track since both tanks are early to mid 1970s. In fact the 69th armored one looks similar to the picture on the cover of the old Squadron M60 in Action book.
Though the color names given are a little dubious. But I find that with all color names in Afv-club instructions.
You're looking for the pre-merdc schemes of the 1970s. Posters tend to get very pedantic spewing out acronyms and designations that confuse rather than clarify.
The US Army schemes in the M60A1 instructions are supposed to be MASSTER schemes of the 1970s. They would have chevron track and side loading air cleaners. Those tanks were just on the cusp of the modifications that would make hex track and top loading air cleaners standard.
The Tankograd book on MASSTER and MERDC should have pictures. I have stuff published on M60s back in the 1970s like AFV-G2 magazine, IPMS quarterly and the aforementioned squadron title when all this current and in use
Though the color names given are a little dubious. But I find that with all color names in Afv-club instructions.
You're looking for the pre-merdc schemes of the 1970s. Posters tend to get very pedantic spewing out acronyms and designations that confuse rather than clarify.
The US Army schemes in the M60A1 instructions are supposed to be MASSTER schemes of the 1970s. They would have chevron track and side loading air cleaners. Those tanks were just on the cusp of the modifications that would make hex track and top loading air cleaners standard.
The Tankograd book on MASSTER and MERDC should have pictures. I have stuff published on M60s back in the 1970s like AFV-G2 magazine, IPMS quarterly and the aforementioned squadron title when all this current and in use
Shalta
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 07:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What do you mean? The chevron track was standard on M60s until the mid 1970s. Both the US Army schemes in the Afv-club kit should have chevron track since both tanks are early to mid 1970s. In fact the 69th armored one looks similar to the picture on the cover of the old Squadron M60 in Action book.
Though the color names given are a little dubious. But I find that with all color names in Afv-club instructions.
You're looking for the pre-merdc schemes of the 1970s. Posters tend to get very pedantic spewing out acronyms and designations that confuse rather than clarify.
The US Army schemes in the M60A1 instructions are supposed to be MASSTER schemes of the 1970s. They would have chevron track and side loading air cleaners. Those tanks were just on the cusp of the modifications that would make hex track and top loading air cleaners standard.
The Tankograd book on MASSTER and MERDC should have pictures. I have stuff published on M60s back in the 1970s like AFV-G2 magazine, IPMS quarterly and the aforementioned squadron title when all this current and in use
Ok, thanks, I've just been unable to find any sort of information on T97E2 tracks, Google literally only found 3 pages of AM track pages, after that I got a bit demoralized and thought it was better to make a post.
I was unable to find more than one picture with T97E2 on an M60A1, which is also a good bit of why I posted. But, I'll look into the book you mentioned.
But, seriously, thanks!
kampfy
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 07:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What do you mean? The chevron track was standard on M60s until the mid 1970s. Both the US Army schemes in the Afv-club kit should have chevron track since both tanks are early to mid 1970s. In fact the 69th armored one looks similar to the picture on the cover of the old Squadron M60 in Action book.
Though the color names given are a little dubious. But I find that with all color names in Afv-club instructions.
You're looking for the pre-merdc schemes of the 1970s. Posters tend to get very pedantic spewing out acronyms and designations that confuse rather than clarify.
The US Army schemes in the M60A1 instructions are supposed to be MASSTER schemes of the 1970s. They would have chevron track and side loading air cleaners. Those tanks were just on the cusp of the modifications that would make hex track and top loading air cleaners standard.
The Tankograd book on MASSTER and MERDC should have pictures. I have stuff published on M60s back in the 1970s like AFV-G2 magazine, IPMS quarterly and the aforementioned squadron title when all this current and in use
So does this mean the 3rd battalion, 3rd armored division option C (As well as the one on the cover of the Patton in action book) and the 69th armored regiment option D should have the same color scheme, instead of what AFV Club calls out?
Sorry to hijack your post Shalta, but finding information on the 69th armored regiment option has been a problem for me too.
Shalta
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 07:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWhat do you mean? The chevron track was standard on M60s until the mid 1970s. Both the US Army schemes in the Afv-club kit should have chevron track since both tanks are early to mid 1970s. In fact the 69th armored one looks similar to the picture on the cover of the old Squadron M60 in Action book.
Though the color names given are a little dubious. But I find that with all color names in Afv-club instructions.
You're looking for the pre-merdc schemes of the 1970s. Posters tend to get very pedantic spewing out acronyms and designations that confuse rather than clarify.
The US Army schemes in the M60A1 instructions are supposed to be MASSTER schemes of the 1970s. They would have chevron track and side loading air cleaners. Those tanks were just on the cusp of the modifications that would make hex track and top loading air cleaners standard.
The Tankograd book on MASSTER and MERDC should have pictures. I have stuff published on M60s back in the 1970s like AFV-G2 magazine, IPMS quarterly and the aforementioned squadron title when all this current and in use
So does this mean the 3rd battalion, 3rd armored division option C (As well as the one on the cover of the Patton in action book) and the 69th armored regiment option D should have the same color scheme, instead of what AFV Club calls out?
Sorry to hijack your post Shalta, but finding information on the 69th armored regiment option has been a problem for me too.
It's not a problem, more information is always good.
Though, the book in question had the "3rd Battalion, 3rd AD" one on the cover, not 69th AR.
Still, it explains where that came from!
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 09:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWhat do you mean? The chevron track was standard on M60s until the mid 1970s. Both the US Army schemes in the Afv-club kit should have chevron track since both tanks are early to mid 1970s. In fact the 69th armored one looks similar to the picture on the cover of the old Squadron M60 in Action book.
Though the color names given are a little dubious. But I find that with all color names in Afv-club instructions.
You're looking for the pre-merdc schemes of the 1970s. Posters tend to get very pedantic spewing out acronyms and designations that confuse rather than clarify.
The US Army schemes in the M60A1 instructions are supposed to be MASSTER schemes of the 1970s. They would have chevron track and side loading air cleaners. Those tanks were just on the cusp of the modifications that would make hex track and top loading air cleaners standard.
The Tankograd book on MASSTER and MERDC should have pictures. I have stuff published on M60s back in the 1970s like AFV-G2 magazine, IPMS quarterly and the aforementioned squadron title when all this current and in use
So does this mean the 3rd battalion, 3rd armored division option C (As well as the one on the cover of the Patton in action book) and the 69th armored regiment option D should have the same color scheme, instead of what AFV Club calls out?
Sorry to hijack your post Shalta, but finding information on the 69th armored regiment option has been a problem for me too.
The thing is that the colors for those schemes are problematic. They often were painted using commercially available paint so finding fs numbers is hard. There may not be any. You need a color picture and best match wins.
But the names are funny. What they call orange lining is in fact a 19th century uniform facing color in the Humbrol line. The tank was probably a a reddish earth color.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 09:17 AM UTC
[/quote]. It's not a problem, more information is always good.
Though, the book in question had the "3rd Battalion, 3rd AD" one on the cover, not 69th AR. Still, it explains where that came from![/quote]
Something is missing from that designation 3rd Battalion 3rd Armored Division could be any battalion in the Division-- the regiment/brigade number should be in there somewhere-- as in 3rd Armored Division, 69th Armored BDE, 1st BN, A- Company. Armored Divisions are usually represented by. Triangle after the Division number, followed by the battalion number followed by a slash or hyphen brigade/regiment number with a slash or hyphen and the the opposite side of the tanke company letter and tank number -- I can't do triangles, so I'll use an "A"- it should look something like this: 3A-1/69 on the right, B-36. On the left. (Bravo Company, tank 36, which is the 3rd platoon leaders tank. This is the way we did it in Europe in 1976-80 anyway-- there were probably earlier and later variations. As for the tracks, the M60A1 (RISE) with side loading air filters was the first to be fitted with the hexagonal frack pads from the get go, but all M60A1s in US service were eventually fitted with that pad, and ribbed road wheels too. I first saw the track in 1975 (although it was on a re-supply pallet, not a tank Even M60s were retrofitted. So it depends on when and what model of tank you are modelling.
VR, Russ
Though, the book in question had the "3rd Battalion, 3rd AD" one on the cover, not 69th AR. Still, it explains where that came from![/quote]
Something is missing from that designation 3rd Battalion 3rd Armored Division could be any battalion in the Division-- the regiment/brigade number should be in there somewhere-- as in 3rd Armored Division, 69th Armored BDE, 1st BN, A- Company. Armored Divisions are usually represented by. Triangle after the Division number, followed by the battalion number followed by a slash or hyphen brigade/regiment number with a slash or hyphen and the the opposite side of the tanke company letter and tank number -- I can't do triangles, so I'll use an "A"- it should look something like this: 3A-1/69 on the right, B-36. On the left. (Bravo Company, tank 36, which is the 3rd platoon leaders tank. This is the way we did it in Europe in 1976-80 anyway-- there were probably earlier and later variations. As for the tracks, the M60A1 (RISE) with side loading air filters was the first to be fitted with the hexagonal frack pads from the get go, but all M60A1s in US service were eventually fitted with that pad, and ribbed road wheels too. I first saw the track in 1975 (although it was on a re-supply pallet, not a tank Even M60s were retrofitted. So it depends on when and what model of tank you are modelling.
VR, Russ
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 09:22 AM UTC
The 69th armored in the 1970s would be 1/69 attached to the 3ID in Germany or 2/69 in the 197th Brigade in Georgia or the 4/69 in the 8th ID in Germany.
Most likely to be a US Army Europe vehicle in that scheme. I know this has been discussed beforearlier in regards to the kit.
Most likely to be a US Army Europe vehicle in that scheme. I know this has been discussed beforearlier in regards to the kit.
Shalta
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Joined: August 23, 2016
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 09:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextWhat do you mean? The chevron track was standard on M60s until the mid 1970s. Both the US Army schemes in the Afv-club kit should have chevron track since both tanks are early to mid 1970s. In fact the 69th armored one looks similar to the picture on the cover of the old Squadron M60 in Action book.
Though the color names given are a little dubious. But I find that with all color names in Afv-club instructions.
You're looking for the pre-merdc schemes of the 1970s. Posters tend to get very pedantic spewing out acronyms and designations that confuse rather than clarify.
The US Army schemes in the M60A1 instructions are supposed to be MASSTER schemes of the 1970s. They would have chevron track and side loading air cleaners. Those tanks were just on the cusp of the modifications that would make hex track and top loading air cleaners standard.
The Tankograd book on MASSTER and MERDC should have pictures. I have stuff published on M60s back in the 1970s like AFV-G2 magazine, IPMS quarterly and the aforementioned squadron title when all this current and in use
So does this mean the 3rd battalion, 3rd armored division option C (As well as the one on the cover of the Patton in action book) and the 69th armored regiment option D should have the same color scheme, instead of what AFV Club calls out?
Sorry to hijack your post Shalta, but finding information on the 69th armored regiment option has been a problem for me too.
The thing is that the colors for those schemes are problematic. They often were painted using commercially available paint so finding fs numbers is hard. There may not be any. You need a color picture and best match wins.
But the names are funny. What they call orange lining is in fact a 19th century uniform facing color in the Humbrol line. The tank was probably a a reddish earth color.
I'll keep that in mind, I'm used to just getting the "close enough" colors anyway, mostly due to the vehicles I prefer to build.
As for the designation, using the A=Triangle thing, the markings for that option say "3A3A32", for what that's worth. Doesnt say it in the instructions though. And the one im intending to use is "8 4A69", so, that's something more than the paint guide says!
Shalta
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 09:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The 69th armored in the 1970s would be 1/69 attached to the 3ID in Germany or 2/69 in the 197th Brigade in Georgia or the 4/69 in the 8th ID in Germany.
Most likely to be a US Army Europe vehicle in that scheme. I know this has been discussed beforearlier in regards to the kit.
Yup, that helps a lot now that I look at the decals and not just the info on the painting/marking guide.
8th ID 4/69 it is, apparently. Thanks again!
On the plus side, now I actually know what those numbers are, I always assumed it was like the 3-digit numbers on Soviet/German tanks... I guess not, lol.
Shalta
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 10:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
. It's not a problem, more information is always good.Though, the book in question had the "3rd Battalion, 3rd AD" one on the cover, not 69th AR. Still, it explains where that came from![/quote]
Something is missing from that designation 3rd Battalion 3rd Armored Division could be any battalion in the Division-- the regiment/brigade number should be in there somewhere-- as in 3rd Armored Division, 69th Armored BDE, 1st BN, A- Company. Armored Divisions are usually represented by. Triangle after the Division number, followed by the battalion number followed by a slash or hyphen brigade/regiment number with a slash or hyphen and the the opposite side of the tanke company letter and tank number -- I can't do triangles, so I'll use an "A"- it should look something like this: 3A-1/69 on the right, B-36. On the left. (Bravo Company, tank 36, which is the 3rd platoon leaders tank. This is the way we did it in Europe in 1976-80 anyway-- there were probably earlier and later variations. As for the tracks, the M60A1 (RISE) with side loading air filters was the first to be fitted with the hexagonal frack pads from the get go, but all M60A1s in US service were eventually fitted with that pad, and ribbed road wheels too. I first saw the track in 1975 (although it was on a re-supply pallet, not a tank Even M60s were retrofitted. So it depends on when and what model of tank you are modelling.
VR, Russ[/quote]
Thanks, I think I've gotten the idea now. It seems like atleast the first two US options are fine (3 3 32, HQ 50, and 8 4 69, B 66, that is), cant say anything about the USMC one, but I'm happy the one I intended to use is atleast decently accurate.
But really, my luck with trying to find references was bad, Couldnt get info on the tracks, and all M60A1s I saw had octagonal track pads. So... It was pretty easy to simply assume something was wrong.
Though, I dont see why it says to put a decal on the front of the searchlight? As it doesnt seem to have a cover?
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 10:39 AM UTC
8th infantry division, 4th of the 69th armored. It does have the cover on the searchlight. And on that cover is the battalion crest. Crests are also on the front corner of the turret.
The other tank has the battalion crest of the 32d armor on a plate on the bustle rack.
In case it matters HQ-50 might be the battalion commander's tank. B-66 would be Bravo company commander's tank.
Except when in use the cover was usually kept on the light. It was a piece of grayish olive drab canvas ( as opposed to brown olive drab)
The other tank has the battalion crest of the 32d armor on a plate on the bustle rack.
In case it matters HQ-50 might be the battalion commander's tank. B-66 would be Bravo company commander's tank.
Except when in use the cover was usually kept on the light. It was a piece of grayish olive drab canvas ( as opposed to brown olive drab)
Shalta
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 09:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
8th infantry division, 4th of the 69th armored. It does have the cover on the searchlight. And on that cover is the battalion crest. Crests are also on the front corner of the turret.
The other tank has the battalion crest of the 32d armor on a plate on the bustle rack.
In case it matters HQ-50 might be the battalion commander's tank. B-66 would be Bravo company commander's tank.
Except when in use the cover was usually kept on the light. It was a piece of grayish olive drab canvas ( as opposed to brown olive drab)
Thanks, I think the kit is missing the cover then, sadly. Couldnt find it anywhere on the sprues or instructions. I'll probably have to skip that decal, but I'll take another look later.
The info is appreciated though, always interesting to know.
I did notice the crests on the turret though, part of why I wanted to use that option. It seems to be the 'busiest' looking one (As opposed to the generally unmarked tanks I usually build)
Sabot
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Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 10:32 PM UTC
HQ-50 is the battalion executive officer's tank. In some battalions HQ-66 and -65 are the battalion commander's and XO's tank. In other battalions, HQ-60 and -50 are those tanks.
As a tank company XO in 8th ID, my tank was A-65. As a tank company commander in 1st Cav, my tank was C-60 and C-50 was my XO.
As far as the older chevron tracks, my M48A5 had that style in 1985.
As a tank company XO in 8th ID, my tank was A-65. As a tank company commander in 1st Cav, my tank was C-60 and C-50 was my XO.
As far as the older chevron tracks, my M48A5 had that style in 1985.