Has anyone seen a photograph of an operational Panzer IV J late type (Thoma mesh Schurzen) with not only the Schurzen removed or missing, but also the support brackets/pipe runner for attaching the Schurzen to the hull?

Photos of other versions like the Ausf. H seem common in this setup, but I'm wondering about a late ausf. J.

Any thoughts on the likelihood of this, even if no good photos exist?

Thanks!

Would this fit the bill ?

11°Pz Div tank in Kötzing, Bavaria, May 1945



H.P.

Funny you would send that particular photo, Henri-Pierre!

I was going to mention that famous photograph as an example of what I'm not looking for, only because the Panzer is abandoned. Many photos of abandoned German tanks show the vehicles picked clean.

Anything that could come off was removed, maybe by the crews, maybe by local townspeople for scrap metal.

The Schurzen brackets come off with only 2 bolts at each anchor point so it would not be too difficult to remove them if they had been there before the vehicle was abandoned.

Thank you for posting this and taking the time to respond!

If you really want a very detailed look at the late PZIVs I recommend getting the newest Panzertracks. They have detailed comprehensive drawings for the first time showing all the late model supports and even show the now known fact that there were wooden pieces bolted to the fenders in between the shurtzen and the fender,to cut down on dust.
J

Thanks for the heads up!

I am basically looking for the green light to model a Panzer IV J late version WITHOUT the brackets/supports and the Schurzen, as I personally rather dislike the look of the Thoma screens.

I want to build the Trumpeter 1:16 Panzer IV J, but get rid of the Schurzen and the bracket supports. I have just never seen any evidence that crews did this on the late Js, even though this seems to be pretty common on other variants.