_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Warning - DVT & modelling
easyco69
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 06:31 PM UTC
Warning - DVT & modelling
Please fellow modellers realize that modelling put's us all at risk for this medical issue.
Sitting too long for many hours & days plus inactive lifestyle plus age can cause this to become a major problem.
What is DVT?
Deep Vein Thrombosis‎-which in turn can lead to a pulmonary embolism which in turn can lead to sudden death.
So, every hour get up & move around..your legs especially...if you notice your legs going to sleep..get up..change position. Better yet, buy a new chair.
Learn more here. Happy modelling.
http://www.medicinenet.com/deep_vein_thrombosis/article.htm
russamotto
Visit this Community
Utah, United States
Joined: December 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,389 posts
Armorama: 2,054 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 07:07 PM UTC
My work just provided me with a fancy new desk that I can elevate to use in a standing position. I thought it would be handy for modeling as well (though they frown on that while on duty). I do spend quite a bit of time standing at the work bench to keep moving around. People who spend too much time on the computer are at the same risk.
KoSprueOne
Visit this Community
Myanmar
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 4,011 posts
Armorama: 1,498 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 08:08 PM UTC
I have a stand-up-bench in the model room as well. I do most measuring, cutting, drafting and building there. If I turn around and sit at the sit-down-bench (small room) then I end up thumbing through printed ref materials I've collected and not building anything

Plus I like to sip beer while at the bench. This keeps the blood thin and heart pumping.




Biggles2
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 08:23 PM UTC
Tell me about it! Six years ago when I retired, I was spending hours a day at modelling. Then I got a blood clot in my left leg - extremely painful. Leg got purple and swelled up. Treatment with a blood thinner regime dissolved the clot, but the danger was that a portion of the clot could have traveled to the heart or brain. Not modelling quite so much anymore!
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 09:04 PM UTC
I'm usually up & crawling on the floor in a fight against the Carpet Monster at least twice an hour - does that mean I'm safe?
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 09:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tell me about it! Six years ago when I retired, I was spending hours a day at modelling. Then I got a blood clot in my left leg - extremely painful. Leg got purple and swelled up. Treatment with a blood thinner regime dissolved the clot, but the danger was that a portion of the clot could have traveled to the heart or brain. Not modelling quite so much anymore!



Deep Vein Thrombosis-- also know as a blood clot, existed long before modeling became the hobby that it is now, and has many other causes besides building models-- as someone above said, anyone who sits a good portion of the day is at risk-- including those who sit at desks in office environments. One of the chief causes of DVTs is poor circulation in the lower extremities, often caused by lifestyle influences--smoking is one of these chief causes. However, going from an active lifestyle to a sedentary one is also a chief cause-- so retirement from an active job to spending retirement totally relaxing in a hobby can also be linked to DVTs. My Mother and Father-in law were lifelong golfers and very heathy, up to the point they gave up golf because of arthritis of the knees. Within two years both had died of DVTs. My college roommate died of a DVT within three months of retirement as a full Army Colonel-- he decided he'd been sitting around long enough and went for a run-- which dislodged a DVT in his lower leg. Sometimes they are there and we don't even know it-- I try and intersperse my workbench time with an equal amount of physical activity- but my doc also has me on a regimen of 81mg of aspirin, a cholesterol inhibitor and a blood pressure med. as a preventative. As I write this, I'm recovering from knee replacement surgery, which I had done as a preventative measure, because osteo-arthritis of the knees is also a contributor-- that's what got my mother and father in law-their knees got in the way of thier physical activity. For my two bits in this discussion, regular check ups, and frequent breaks from the hobby bench for some PT are good recommendations in preventing DVTs-- I also work from a tall stool-- a good cross between standing and sitting.
VR Russ
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 09:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm usually up & crawling on the floor in a fight against the Carpet Monster at least twice an hour - does that mean I'm safe?



Ditto. And swearing too...
Biggles2
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 09:45 PM UTC
I also get up once in a while to change the TV channel! Or else its =
Tojo72
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 10:08 PM UTC
I don't sit at my bench,I stand and work all the time.Also I never have the opportunity to sit and work for hours,that would be great.
r2d2
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: April 13, 2006
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 419 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 10:30 PM UTC
Interesting topic indeed. I've been treating DVT's for my patients as long as I started my profession as a medical doctor. There are a several of factors to consider why we developed clots particular on the venous circulation and in the deep vein of our legs. Varicose veins, inactivity, poor venous circulations are a few of the reasons, provoked or un-provoked DVT's, malignancy, post surgery, vasculitic condition, autoimmune condition etc.

If the clot dislodge then it will travel up through your venous return towards the right side of our heart and will end up in the lungs and will stay there causing Pulmonary Embolism. It could not go anywhere else as this is the dead end of our capillary circulation at the level of our single red blood cell. Think of your lungs as a mesh filter and it will filter all the blood clot there formed and coming from our lower extremities or upper extremities for that matter.

DVT won't kill you (although its really painful) but the resulting embolisation of the clot to your lungs will especially with all other medical issues we have. It also depends if its a massive or submassive Pulmonary embolism. Treatment is with anticoagulation and address the primary cause and investigate why you form the clot in the first place. Anticoagulation won't dissolve the clot but rather to prevent your body from forming further clots. Your body will gradually absorbed the clot, however in Massive Pulmonary Embolism we do give thrombolysis which is dissolving the clot itself.

Clots that are formed on the arterial side (that is the return of oxygenated blood from the lungs towards the left side of the heart) will have the potential to cause clots in the brain or systemic arterial circulation and this is not DVT.

Aspirin or Clopidogrel are anti-platelet and is not a treatment for DVT. DVT is treated with anticoagulation: Heparin , LMWH, VKA (WARFARIN) or DOACS.
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Interesting topic indeed. I've been treating DVT's for my patients as long as I started my profession as a medical doctor...

...DVT won't kill you (although its really painful) but the resulting embolisation of the clot to your lungs will especially with all other medical issues we have. It also depends if its a massive or submassive Pulmonary embolism.

Aspirin or Clopidogrel are anti-platelet and is not a treatment for DVT. DVT is treated with anticoagulation: Heparin , LMWH, VKA (WARFARIN) or DOACS.



I agree with all of the above-- it wasn't the DVTs that killed my Mother and Father- in-Law or my college roommate-- it was the massive strokes they had-- in the case of my father in law and college roommate, they died within hours of the stroke, caused by a DVT formed blood clot- for my mother in law, she had many strokes over a two year period, and during that time she was on Warfarin. My wife is also subject to DVTs, and is currently on Eloquis (sp?). I'm on the 81 mg of aspirin as a clot preventer following surgery-- actually it's 81 mg x 4 times a day-- a prophylaxis against forming a blood clots from a DVT, since there is a lot of inactivity following knee surgery. Although my doc has decided it wouldn't hurt to be on aspirin all the time at my age.
This indeed is an interesting topic-- The reason I replied was to say that modeling in general does not cause DVTs-- it's our lifestyle choices, and to some degree genetics-- if we chose to sit around a workbench all day, there is a price to pay for that-- moderation in all things is best, including time at the workbench. And no, groveling on the floor in a fight with the carpet monster doesn't really count-- I used to think walking from my workbench to the fridge and back to get a drink would count, but the doc has told me differently, She insists on 10 minutes of standing activity for every 50 minutes at the bench-- what a slave driver! So I stand and work sometimes-- and purposely keep my paints and glues in a different workshop location-- so I have to stand and walk to get them. I think this is a good topic to discuss in this forum, as it reminds us that we should be engaged in other activities as well as modeling-- especially as we get older.
VR, Russ
j76lr
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,081 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 02:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't sit at my bench,I stand and work all the time.Also I never have the opportunity to sit and work for hours,that would be great.


Wait till you retire Tony !!! Especially in the winter !
j76lr
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,081 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 02:18 AM UTC
I have one of those foot rollers the kind with all those little roller beads on it. but I dont spend that much time sitting , maybe 2 hours a day 4 -5 times a week ,if that . in the summer less.
Tojo72
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 02:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I don't sit at my bench,I stand and work all the time.Also I never have the opportunity to sit and work for hours,that would be great.


Wait till you retire Tony !!! Especially in the winter !



14 months
r2d2
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: April 13, 2006
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 419 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 05:04 AM UTC
Prolonged immobility especially when we do our models for long hours sitting behind the desk will increase the chance of forming deep vein thrombosis. This is also very true with long haul flights and post surgical patients. As in my profession, we immediately have to anticipate the risk of immobility of our patients. Once risk is identified that they will indeed have higher chance of forming DVT via immobility we then have to assess the risks for bleeding (i.e. low platelet cut off, previous or recent hemorrhagic stroke/bleed, bleeding tendencies, gastro intestinal bleed etc.) for us to start immediately on DVT prophylaxis. We have a very specific regime on this, such as a low molecular weight heparin (LMWH - enoxaparin as one of the example and trade name known as Clexane), DOACs or direct oral anticoagulants etc. If this oral anticoagulants are contra-indicated we opt for other proven DVT prevention such as compression stockings or commonly known as TEDs stocking or heparinoids.

There's a lot to DVT that I can post here and I do understand that sitting behind our desk for prolonged period of time is one of the risk factors in developing clot in our legs. Doing simple stretching and regular breaks will greatly reduced the risk. You can also avail compression or Ted stocking to wear while you do long hours of modelling. Think of it as the same risk we have with long haul flights. This are just my advise to fellow modellers as in relation to this topic from my medical background and I do know that any other medical doctor around here would fully agree with me.

To answer Russ question, Eliquis is a trade or brand name for Apixaban. This is a direct oral anticoagulant (DOAC) that is used for anticoagulation that acts on coagulation pathway Factor Xa inhibitor. A very good anticoagulant drug IMHO.

Now guys, back to modelling and wear your Teds.
tatbaqui
Staff MemberNews Writer
ARMORAMA
#040
Visit this Community
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 06, 2007
KitMaker: 2,713 posts
Armorama: 2,451 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 07:41 AM UTC
+1 on compression stockings - it does help for those long hours of sitting like in long haul flights.

For some time now I've been thinking about that high work table that forces one to be standing while working -- seems like other folks swear by it. Now to find one that I can work with...

LonCray
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: August 24, 2005
KitMaker: 348 posts
Armorama: 256 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 08:53 PM UTC
I made my high workbench from Ikea parts - four long metal legs and a wooden panel, plus a glass covering. Quick and simple and makes me stand. Oh, and I also have some foam rubber tiles on my floor that help keep my legs from getting too fatigued.
gcdavidson
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
Armorama: 1,563 posts
Posted: Friday, October 14, 2016 - 08:13 AM UTC
I designed my new model bench to incorporate this posture
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Friday, October 14, 2016 - 09:12 AM UTC
Ha! That will be great for working on the undersides of vehicles and aircraft! A bonus is you'll be taller too after finishing a model!
VR Russ
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
Visit this Community
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Friday, October 14, 2016 - 09:44 AM UTC
David,

Thanks for this useful information.
 _GOTOTOP