Hi All,

I have several Dragon tank kits that have 'built-in' zimmerit. I would like, on some of these models, to show damaged zim, that is, zim that is no longer present, and just shows flat metal. Has anyone figured out a method to 'remove' or otherwise show damaged zimmerit on these Dragon kits, using a somewhat 'standard' method? I'm sure it would be possible to simply cut 'holes' in the spot where the damaged zimmerit is desired, and then simply put sheet styrene in the hole to show flat metal hull, but that seems to me, as a modeler of limited skills, to be a very difficult method, and I would be afraid of really messing up an expensive model going this route. Has anyone figured out a better/easier way to show damaged zim on these kits?

Hey Curt. I have a Porsche turreted Dragon KT, and I simply used a knife, a number 11 blade, to scrape away some areas of the plastic where the zimmerit was to be shown damaged. I also did this on my Sturmtiger, which is another molded on model. I think the original paste was not very thickly applied, and just baring a section with a scraping technique seems to work fine. And if there is an impact also, well that can be done several ways as well.

Hope that helps...

I found these, not sure if helpfull though;

http://www.track-link.com/forums/modelling_construction/14500/flat

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/159403&page=1

Kind regards
Steven

Hi, Curt!

Everyone has given you good suggestions- X-acto also makes some nice Chisel Knife Blades in varying widths that you might like to use. The Zimmerit paste was not thick, so you don't need to go very deep at all when "chiseling" away the Zimmerit in the places where you want to simulate "chipped or damaged" areas. You really don't need to start drilling holes in your Zimmerit-covered surfaces, and then applying flat styrene from the inside. Why do all that extra work if you don't need to..?

I've used a similar method: use a pointy blade to outline the area to be cleared, then use a curved blade to slice/chisel/ or scrape away the zimmerit. When using light pressure, the blade will stop where you've cut the outline. Light pressure is important to keep the bare steel area flat and smooth, and not create a divot.

All of these are great ideas, guys, thank you very much! I particularly like the chisel concept, which should have been obvious to me, and it IS obvious now that you've brought it up. The pictures were helpful, and the problems to watch out for were equally valuable. Again, thanks do very much for your help!

I have Dragons Mid Tiger 1 with zimm and I want to do Otto C's tank. The last photo's show a lot of zimm off of the front of the tank and I have been contemplating this various problem. With the zimm on the front, you don't want to mess up experimenting.

If you want to model a tank with really a LOT of zimmerit knocked or burned off, it might be easier to buy a kit without zimmerit, and a resin zimmerit set by Cavalier, or Attack, and just glue on torn up or cut sections of the zimmerit.

@Greg Smith: You are planning to do exactly what I was planning, which is why I posted my question. I happen to be fortunate enough to have the Otto Carius Cyber Hobby 6763 kit, and while I want to make the tank as accurate as possible, it scares me to think of messing it up if I do something wrong. As I mentioned in my initial post, I have several Dragon Zimmerit kits, none of which are as valuable as the Carius kit. I will try to do what I can on one of these before trying anything at all on 6763, believe me!

AGREE- I especially like the CAVALIER Zimmerit! It's thin and very easy to work with!

Thanks, guys. However, I really would like to build the Cyber Hobby Otto Carius kit, which has the built-in Zimmerit. I have a set of ATAK Zimmerit that I was going to use on another Cyber Hobby mid-production Tiger I that doesn't have Zimmerit, but needs it.

If you can find one One of the mission Models chisels would work great for what you are after, I have all of them and they are nice and sharp and easy to control!

Cheers Rob.

Curt, just a thought. Zimm the other Cyber Hobby turret and hull with damaged add on Zimm and then use the Otto C.parts to finish the kit up. Basically you are just trading out the prezimmed parts for the non Zimmed parts. If the turret parts and hull parts without zimm are a match, let me know what the kit number is you used to trade with.

Hey Greg, not a bad idea at all! The 'other' kit I have which I got the ATAK Zim for is Cyber Hobby 6660, Sd.Kfz.181 Pz.Kpfw VI Ausf.E Tiger I. I will take a look at the two kits and compare them. My guess is that you're correct, that this may be a great way to address my concern! Thank you sir...wil let you know what I find.

Rob, thanks so much for the idea! I had actually been looking an the Mission Chisels once people started mentioning options for doing this work, and it's great to know that they have the quality I was hoping for!

You are welcome!

Cheers Rob.

Curt, were those parts an exact match so you could trade the zimm parts for the non zimm parts?

Hi Greg,
Been dealing with a broken leg here for the last several days, so I haven't had a chance to look into the parts between the kits. I will, however, let you know as soon as I check it out. I want to know, too!!!!

Sorry to hear about the leg. Take it easy.

Hi Greg,

Just got a chance to do a quick check between the Carius kit and the Cyber Hobby 6660. I found that the one specific difference is that the Carius kit has what they call a 'flat mantlet' part that has Zimmerit on it. What I mean by flat is that on the right side of the mantlet (right side as you are looking at it from the front) there are 2 horizontal holes. In the 6660 kit, those holes are present in a section of the mantlet that is raised a bit (which I understand is the 'common' mantlet). On the 'Carius mantlet', those 2 holes are not raised at all, that is, they are flat. I'll try to post a picture. It turns out that the 6660 kit has that exact same mantlet, just without Zimmerit. So, without looking in detail, I am beginning to think that if you used that non-Zim mantlet, and did you own Zim to match pictures of the Carius tank, and then, cut away appropriate parts of the ATAK Zimmerit that is appropriate for 6660 (ATAK 35032, which is not made for 6660 but will fit, and which I happen to have, by the way), I'm thinking that an accurate rendering of the Carius tank, with damaged Zim, could be accomplished, as you suggested.

It turns out that the ATAK Zim has 2 resin mantlets included and I was hoping that one of them would match the Carius mantlet, but unfortunately, that is not the case.

I need to do a more detailed, piece by piece, comparison between these 2 kits to be certain that they match, but for now, it's looking good. I think we can do a more accurate Carius from 6660 and ATAK Zim! You came up with a great idea, Greg!

Great news. In preparation for this same project I ordered the flat mantlet from Dragon USA months ago. I think it came from the Porsche hulled Tiger kit. There was only one Tiger kit that came with the flat mantlet other than the Otto C kit. The Tamiya kit has the wrong mantlet. I probably could have carved up a mantlet to make a flat mantlet. Because it would be zimmed, it wouldn't have to be perfect. The next piece to worry about is the front road wheel hub. Otto's battalion was known to run with the outside front road wheel missing to allow heavy mud to escape. You can use this from your Otto kit but I am going to have to craft this part. Can you describe what it looks like from the Otto kit?

Greg, the road wheel hubs are, as you suggest, the next 'major' pieces of plastic/photo etch that need to be compared between the kits. I will do so tomorrow. If I am not mistaken, 6660 happens to have a similar, if not identical, set of hubs which will allow the outside road wheels to be removed/not installed, exactly like the Carius kit. I am thinking that this will not be a problem area, but I will verify.

There is one other issue that goes back to Zimmeritt, though, depending upon how accurate you want your tank to be. If I'm not mistaken, one of the highlights/improvements of the Carius kit that Dragon made a big deal about was the accuracy of the ZImmeritt. On the Carius kit, the Zim is definitely more delicate, less deep (that is, more 'to scale'), at least compared to the first Dragon Tiger with ZImmeritt (the late construction version). The late version is quite deep and perhaps over-exaggerated (I know this because that late model Tiger was one of the first models I built after getting back into the hobby). The Zim is great, and certainly better than not having any Zim at all, or having to do it yourself), but it is 'deep'. The Carius Zim is, no question, less deep and probably more 'to scale'. How the ATAK Zimmeritt compares, in that respect, with the Carius kit, I do not know. If there is a significant difference, though, then one would have to ask whether the 'scale effect' of Zimmerit is more significant than the ability to depict Zimmeritt damage. Because the Carius tank did have quite a bit of missing/damaged Zim, it would seem that the damaged Zim would probably be more important. IMHO, only, of course!

I agree. The damaged Zimm is of higher importance and I believe people thought the Atak zimm was accurate. If you have the same photo's I have then there is a lack of turret numbers on Otto's tank. I have looked very close and changed the contrast but the only thing I could see were the crosses on the side of the hull. My guess and it is only a guess is the tank was repainted. The damaged area, if I recall correctly, was the same color as the nondamaged area. Let me know what you find out about the hubs.

Hows the leg doing?