Hello fellow modelers. I need some advice from the history buffs please.
I am busy with Zvezda's Kingtiger (Porsche turret). Now, everywhere I read about the Annelise. What about the OTHER Kingtiger with the Porsche turret.
Does anyone have any info, pictures, links that can help me please. I am doing a winter scene, and have the tank all nicely (my opinion) weathered etc, but I do not relish the idea of messing it up with decals. Looking at Annelise photos (black and white) does not tell me what the colour under the white was - hence I might get the areas behind the decals (where the area was blocked off around the decals prior to spraying white) looking really crap and mess up the work I've done so far. I am hoping the OTHER Porsche turreted Kingtiger might be less of a challenge (regarding decals).
OR - can I simply leave the decals off completely?
Thanks.
Richard
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The OTHER Kingtiger
masonre
Joined: November 25, 2015
KitMaker: 23 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 - 12:52 PM UTC
wedgetail53
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 658 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 - 02:40 PM UTC
G'day Richard
The picture below, which is from Waldemar Trojca's King Tiger Vol. 1, may help.
It would appear, from the patches of green and brown showing here and there, that the tank was painted in three colour camo before being painted white.
Hope this helps. I have pictures of the other side, front and rear as well if needed.
Regards
Rob
The picture below, which is from Waldemar Trojca's King Tiger Vol. 1, may help.
It would appear, from the patches of green and brown showing here and there, that the tank was painted in three colour camo before being painted white.
Hope this helps. I have pictures of the other side, front and rear as well if needed.
Regards
Rob
easyco69
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 - 03:43 PM UTC
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 - 11:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello fellow modelers. I need some advice from the history buffs please.
I am busy with Zvezda's Kingtiger (Porsche turret). Now, everywhere I read about the Annelise. What about the OTHER Kingtiger with the Porsche turret.
Does anyone have any info, pictures, links that can help me please. I am doing a winter scene, and have the tank all nicely (my opinion) weathered etc, but I do not relish the idea of messing it up with decals. Looking at Annelise photos (black and white) does not tell me what the colour under the white was - hence I might get the areas behind the decals (where the area was blocked off around the decals prior to spraying white) looking really crap and mess up the work I've done so far. I am hoping the OTHER Porsche turreted Kingtiger might be less of a challenge (regarding decals).
OR - can I simply leave the decals off completely?
Thanks.
Richard
The other early turret King Tiger serving with the 503rd in Hungary was not photographed, as far as I know. Both tanks had been issued to the third company in August, 1944, and were part of the group photographed at Mailly le Camps (east of Paris) doing gunnery training. The two tanks survived because they broke down that day, and couldn't mobilize with the rest of the company when it went to the front. Lieutenant Frieherr von Rosen arranged for them to be evacuated to Paderborn when the front collapsed. The rest of the battalion received new, production turret King Tigers in September, some with and some without Zimmerit, before deploying to Budapest to put down a coup attempt. The August photos will give you an idea of the pre-winter camouflage.
masonre
Joined: November 25, 2015
KitMaker: 23 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 11:48 AM UTC
Thanks for the replies guys. I have both those (and other) photos of Annelise. Thanks.
I hate doing decals, and dread it even more so because of the zimmerit!!! I think I will use artist licence on this one, and considering that the other Porsche-turreted KT was not photographed, I'll say it's that one and leave all markings off. Who knows, maybe they sprayed their tank (both these Kingtigers had their white camo sprayed on - not whitewashed) and never put the markings on.....
You think that will be ok? Or will it work if I put LOADS of decal liquid on before applying the decal? Should the decal sink into the zimmerit grooves if I do it that way? If it doesn't will I be able to remove the decal later?
Thanks
I hate doing decals, and dread it even more so because of the zimmerit!!! I think I will use artist licence on this one, and considering that the other Porsche-turreted KT was not photographed, I'll say it's that one and leave all markings off. Who knows, maybe they sprayed their tank (both these Kingtigers had their white camo sprayed on - not whitewashed) and never put the markings on.....
You think that will be ok? Or will it work if I put LOADS of decal liquid on before applying the decal? Should the decal sink into the zimmerit grooves if I do it that way? If it doesn't will I be able to remove the decal later?
Thanks
wedgetail53
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 658 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 12:06 PM UTC
G'day Richard
Yes, the decals will sink into the grooves, based on my previous experience.
Regards
Rob
Yes, the decals will sink into the grooves, based on my previous experience.
Regards
Rob
Lawyer1
Joined: July 22, 2015
KitMaker: 72 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 12:27 PM UTC
Hi Richard, if you're not a fan of doing decals, why not create templates and spray your markings on as in real life. I've done it before using a sheet of overhead transparency "paper" (if you can call it that). using a sharp blade cut your crosses/numbers out, spray the white outline and fill in the secondary colour by hand. Much easier than you think and actually very effective.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 08:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
G'day Richard
Yes, the decals will sink into the grooves, based on my previous experience.
Regards
Rob
Usually, only if you are using good quality thin film decals and a decal softener. Otherwise, they will sit on the tops of the zimmerit ridges and create airpockets, and look like crap - based on my previous experience.
masonre
Joined: November 25, 2015
KitMaker: 23 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 09:11 PM UTC
Thanks guys. They are Zvezda decals. Are they crap?
I will try the decals - BUT can they be removed if it's as flop? Then I'll try the painted method. I really do prefer to have a German cross on the turret.
What I'll do (for the commnunity) is to post my progress here once it's done.
Can decals be removed if it's a flop?
I will try the decals - BUT can they be removed if it's as flop? Then I'll try the painted method. I really do prefer to have a German cross on the turret.
What I'll do (for the commnunity) is to post my progress here once it's done.
Can decals be removed if it's a flop?
Armorsmith
Joined: April 09, 2015
KitMaker: 1,063 posts
Armorama: 1,000 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 10:01 PM UTC
Using Solvaset or a similar decal setting solution I have had excellent results getting decals to snuggle into the zimmerit. I use a Q-tip or stiff brush to press the decal into the ridges. Trick is to make sure the pressure is perpendicular to the surface otherwise the decal will smear and or tear. Gentle pressure usually does the trick. Good luck.
Hederstierna
#247
Joined: January 03, 2008
KitMaker: 1,102 posts
Armorama: 1,018 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2016 - 12:17 AM UTC
Richard
I'd go for a third solution; dry decals.
Archer does great decals, and they are very easy to use leaving no silvering.
Jacob
I'd go for a third solution; dry decals.
Archer does great decals, and they are very easy to use leaving no silvering.
Jacob
Cuny12
Joined: April 04, 2010
KitMaker: 378 posts
Armorama: 348 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2016 - 06:01 AM UTC
I just did Annaliese a few months back and for the camo underneath the whitewash I based it off the pictures in France of camo patterns in pics, the problem is that no known pics exist of it pre white wash so you can do whatever you want no one can say who is right or wrong.
The second Porsche turreted KT that was with 503 in Hungary wasn't well photographed but in Trojcas King tiger Technical and operational history there is one photo claiming to be the second KT.
When trying to put the decals on zimm I use Tamiya Decal softener and order down quite hard on the decal with tissue paper forcing it into the crevices it does work well.
The second Porsche turreted KT that was with 503 in Hungary wasn't well photographed but in Trojcas King tiger Technical and operational history there is one photo claiming to be the second KT.
When trying to put the decals on zimm I use Tamiya Decal softener and order down quite hard on the decal with tissue paper forcing it into the crevices it does work well.
masonre
Joined: November 25, 2015
KitMaker: 23 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2016 - 04:39 PM UTC
Hi Guys. I'm back. 
After your comments and encouragement, I decided that doing the decals might not be as difficult as I thought, I opted to try doing that before trying the paint-job method. And it worked. I used Tamiya Strong Mark Fit and a cotton bud and the decal nestled down into the cracks just nicely. Thanks for the encouragement. Once completed, I'll post picks here of the Kingtiger.
I first need to figure out how to post pics though! I get a message "The category you chose for this photo can't contain photos." I did not choose a category. Merely selected UPLOAD PHOTO(S), was taken to a Kitmaker site where it didn't want me to upload.
Cheers for now....
Richard
PS. I opted not to do the Annelise. So all I put on are the crosses.
After your comments and encouragement, I decided that doing the decals might not be as difficult as I thought, I opted to try doing that before trying the paint-job method. And it worked. I used Tamiya Strong Mark Fit and a cotton bud and the decal nestled down into the cracks just nicely. Thanks for the encouragement. Once completed, I'll post picks here of the Kingtiger.
I first need to figure out how to post pics though! I get a message "The category you chose for this photo can't contain photos." I did not choose a category. Merely selected UPLOAD PHOTO(S), was taken to a Kitmaker site where it didn't want me to upload.
Cheers for now....
Richard
PS. I opted not to do the Annelise. So all I put on are the crosses.
masonre
Joined: November 25, 2015
KitMaker: 23 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 08:02 PM UTC
hello again.
Here are photos of my completed Zvezda 1/35 Königstiger on an elaborate base.
Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
Richard
Here are photos of my completed Zvezda 1/35 Königstiger on an elaborate base.
Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
Richard
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 08:32 PM UTC
Looks freezin` muddy good. 
easyco69
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 10:08 PM UTC
nice work.
masonre
Joined: November 25, 2015
KitMaker: 23 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 10:40 AM UTC
thanks guys.
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