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Normandy Country dirt/mud colors
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 04:56 AM UTC
If I get to weathering my Tiger II tank, which I want to place in the Normandy countryside, does anyone know the general color of the soil/dirt/mud there? Does it have a distinct color palette? I haven't been able to find this info elsewhere. I know that some parts of the world have particular colors in the soils. Does Normandy fit into that category? Or is the soil there pretty 'generic'?
jps
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 05:34 AM UTC
For fun I went to Google maps scrolled myself over to the Normandy area and switched to satellite and zoomed in. I would cal it pretty neutral colored. But maybe you would call it sumething else. Give it a try.
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 11:23 AM UTC
http://armorama.com/forums/219806&page=1

H.P.
Sean50
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 11:50 AM UTC
Hello there

It depends where you are on Normandy. The soil varies a bit throughout thd region.
As you have a Tiger II that limits it a bit. I'll post some photos probably this evening when j get home.



Cheers

Sean
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 06:24 PM UTC



Henri, great pictures, thank you for the link. The mud and soil look pretty much like the midwestern US, where I am from originally. This helps a lot; thanks again!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 06:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text




Henri, great pictures, thank you for the link. The mud and soil look pretty much like the midwestern US, where I am from originally. This helps a lot; thanks again!



Hi Curt,
Maybe you are closer to the truth than you know ....
The word 'prairie' comes from the French word for "meadow.
Go figure
/ Robin
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 06:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello there

It depends where you are on Normandy. The soil varies a bit throughout thd region.
As you have a Tiger II that limits it a bit. I'll post some photos probably this evening when j get home.



Cheers

Sean



Sean, if you know where the Tiger IIs spent most of their time, I'd like to see the images you have. Thank you!
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 08:17 PM UTC
As you are using a Tiger ll, that would place your area in the Caen/Falaise area of Normandie. I've seen read references to reddish-brown dust covering everything.
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 11:43 PM UTC
If true, that would make for a really interesting weathering job! Even with all the various mud, dirt and pigment products I have, none have a reddish cast. I'd have to come up with a way to make my own red dirt. Nothing like more challenges
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 - 01:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If true, that would make for a really interesting weathering job! Even with all the various mud, dirt and pigment products I have, none have a reddish cast. I'd have to come up with a way to make my own red dirt. Nothing like more challenges



Maybe take a look in a cosmetics shop/department?
Some of the powders the ladies (and some men) use could probably be used as dust on models.
/ Robin
Anmoga
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Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 - 01:26 PM UTC
Hi Curt,

There are some pigments that have a reddish look and most likely you have an enamel with a reddish look that you could use with the other products that you already have.

Regards,
Angel
Sean50
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Manche, France
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Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 - 05:03 PM UTC
Bit later than hoped....

Some photos of a walk in February across the Goodeood and Totalize battlefields...



jrutman
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Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 - 06:15 PM UTC
I don't know where the stated "reddish dust" reference comes from. I haven't seen any reddish dust images from Normandy at all. The roads back then were mostly packed dirt and a tan yellow color with corresponding dust but red? Nah.
J
Biggles2
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Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 - 08:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't know where the stated "reddish dust" reference comes from. I haven't seen any reddish dust images from Normandy at all. The roads back then were mostly packed dirt and a tan yellow color with corresponding dust but red? Nah.
J


As stated above, different areas of Normadie had varying soils - maybe you're just not looking in the right places. Anyway, the above two pics definitely show a reddish/brown soil and dust on the road surface.
It's like when you argued with me that there were NO bocage land in British 2nd Army sector. Certainly not east of the Orne (where the major armored offences took place), but starting just west of Caen. Ever hear of Villers Bocage? Not named for nothing!
Removed by original poster on 09/05/17 - 15:07:45 (GMT).
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, September 04, 2017 - 08:57 PM UTC
A small selection of images, maybe biased since I was looking for a slight red-ish tint. There are other images which show a purer tan colour but there is enough of both to justify some freedon in the choice of colour. Going for a red-ish tint could add some visual interest to the dust. Tan on dunkelgelb? Come on, how boring can it get!










all that sand comes from somewhere ...




hmmm, tan close to white? not sure if old photos are 100% trustworthy ...




almost a bit of yellow in this one, tan with yellow tint ?




Ooops, wrong planet !!

/ Robin
Biggles2
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Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 03:37 AM UTC
Not red like you see in much of Cambodia and Vietnam - that's Martian red! A subdued reddish brown, that is more red than yellow.
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 06:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I don't know where the stated "reddish dust" reference comes from. I haven't seen any reddish dust images from Normandy at all. The roads back then were mostly packed dirt and a tan yellow color with corresponding dust but red? Nah.
J


As stated above, different areas of Normadie had varying soils - maybe you're just not looking in the right places. Anyway, the above two pics definitely show a reddish/brown soil and dust on the road surface.
It's like when you argued with me that there were NO bocage land in British 2nd Army sector. Certainly not east of the Orne (where the major armored offences took place), but starting just west of Caen. Ever hear of Villers Bocage? Not named for nothing!



I was referencing the general look of the area. I am sure you can find pink or purple somewhere in the area as well but GENERALLY the dust is not reddish color just as also GENERALLY the area in the Commonwealth sector was not heavy bocage like the American sector. Have you seen Villers Bocage ? It does not look like the bocage conjured up in most folks minds.Although bocage does exist in the general area.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 06:58 PM UTC
Google satellite view Villers-Bocage.
The fields that are not green have a slight red/brown tint.
https://www.google.se/maps/@49.080561,-0.6629258,2194m/data=!3m1!1e3

zoom in on arbitrary field, some have a more pronounced tint than the others.
On the other hand: the definition of "tan" is rather vague and can include colours that are more red than the fields in Googles satellite view ....

Satellite view south of Cherbourg
https://www.google.se/maps/@49.5639628,-1.6191695,8732m/data=!3m1!1e3
Less red, more hedgerows
/ Robin
Kaktusas
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Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 07:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

If I get to weathering my Tiger II tank, which I want to place in the Normandy countryside, does anyone know the general color of the soil/dirt/mud there? Does it have a distinct color palette? I haven't been able to find this info elsewhere. I know that some parts of the world have particular colors in the soils. Does Normandy fit into that category? Or is the soil there pretty 'generic'?



Google street view? I think its quite good.
bill_c
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Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 07:54 PM UTC
Gents, keep in mind that mud, wet soil and dried mud/soil all look very different. So Curt, if you are doing a wet dio, then all the pics with "white" soil will be off. When fine dirt dries, it gets very "whitish," but that is only because moisture changes the color of soil.

Your mileage may vary.
Sean50
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Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 09:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gents, keep in mind that mud, wet soil and dried mud/soil all look very different.



Funny, just the point I was going to make. The soil lightens in colour a lot when dry. Keep in mind that although the fightin in Normandy took place in summer, and dust was definitely a problem, it was not sunny every day. It rains here a fair bit all year round, always has done, as illustrated frequently by a local cartoonist....





Anyway, here's a photo taken near Cambes en Plaine (just north of Caen- the geology is pretty similar all around the city). I was taking a photo of wet mud but there are dry splatters on the car too which are very light in comparison:



This one is again from the Goodwood area (so Tiger II country, like the photos I posted previously). The track is quite dry:



Upshot of all this...... I have found any kind of "Dark Earth" colour to be good enough for "normal" conditions in Normandy. Darken it a little for wetter, lighten it a fair bit for drier.

With regards the red-brown issue.... the soil is very red-brown in the area around St Jean de Daye/Le Dézert (from a 1944 perspective think PzLehr counter attack in July). There's a heavy clay content and many of the older houses and barns in the area are made of this mud ("masse" locally). It's interesting that I have never seen a model of this kind of building (apart from a couple I've made myself ) but it is extremely common throughout this part of the region.

Hope all this is of some use.

Cheers

Sean
Kelley
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Posted: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 11:28 PM UTC
Looking at the pics, I'd say there's a whole lot more brown than red. You wanna see "red" dirt, come on down to Georgia.


bill_c
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 02:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There's a heavy clay content and many of the older houses and barns in the area are made of this mud ("masse" locally). It's interesting that I have never seen a model of this kind of building (apart from a couple I've made myself ) but it is extremely common throughout this part of the region.


Photos, please!
rdt1953
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 02:53 AM UTC
I don't know if this will be of any help to you as it is beach sand from Normandy and it seems you are looking for inland soil but here it is - be advised that it is a little darker than the photo would indicate as it was taken in bright sunlight .



I should think there would be some red/brown hue- there is a lot of blood spilled there.

Richard
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