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Photo-etch construction question
urumomo
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 04:16 AM UTC
Anyone here familiar with these hot-air soldering stations ?
Wondering if it would work with photo-etch --less exciting than all the flames at the bench .
Or am I way off base ?

https://www.amazon.com/YOUYUE-858D-Station-Soldering-Digital/dp/B00P8Z4RPG/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1508108572&sr=1-1&keywords=soldering+station&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011%2Cp_36%3A-13000%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A5509760011%2C3415508011%2C3415502011
Vicious
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 05:09 AM UTC
I'm also interested in the answer because I would like a soldering station like this one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YIHUA-EU-Plug-220V-65W-Electrical-Portable-Thermostat-Soldering-Iron-Welding-SMD-Rework-Station-Solder-Stand/32760180850.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10342_10343_10340_10341_10307_10060_10131_10155_10132_10133_10154_10056_10055_10054_10537_10059_10536_10534_10533_10532_100031_10099_10338_10103_10102_10052_10053_10107_10050_10142_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10175_10111_10112_10113_10114_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073-10102,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=e916dafc-c13f-480b-b282-81a3a58e45c6&algo_expid=8e83d6ee-fa24-4a94-9017-527e8e238ccd-1&algo_pvid=8e83d6ee-fa24-4a94-9017-527e8e238ccd

JSSVIII
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 05:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm also interested in the answer because I would like a soldering station like this one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YIHUA-EU-Plug-220V-65W-Electrical-Portable-Thermostat-Soldering-Iron-Welding-SMD-Rework-Station-Solder-Stand/32760180850.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10342_10343_10340_10341_10307_10060_10131_10155_10132_10133_10154_10056_10055_10054_10537_10059_10536_10534_10533_10532_100031_10099_10338_10103_10102_10052_10053_10107_10050_10142_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10175_10111_10112_10113_10114_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073-10102,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=e916dafc-c13f-480b-b282-81a3a58e45c6&algo_expid=8e83d6ee-fa24-4a94-9017-527e8e238ccd-1&algo_pvid=8e83d6ee-fa24-4a94-9017-527e8e238ccd



I wonder if you could turn down the heat enough to make weld seams in styrene with the soldering iron in that rig.
urumomo
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 05:22 AM UTC
That looks even better !
... course , I'll need to run 220 to the bench
Prob make em for 110 volt though .

Vicious
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 05:40 AM UTC
Usually they have the 2 option 220-240v and 110v
urumomo
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 05:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Usually they have the 2 option 220-240v and 110v


Indeed : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/220V-2-in-1-Rework-StationIron-Solder-Soldering-Hot-Air-Gun-SAIKE-852D-Free-Shipping/1000001152245.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.51.EcRsHH&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10344_10345_10342_10343_10340_10341_10307_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_10537_10059_10536_10534_10533_10532_100031_10099_10338_10103_10102_5590020_10052_10053_10107_10050_10142_10051_10324_10325_10084_10083_5370020_10080_10082_10081_5610020_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073-10102,searchweb201603_30,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=c42d00ee-a666-4a16-866b-7e60b26f972a&algo_expid=2280b83b-e79d-4035-8295-b545f2d9f653-6&algo_pvid=2280b83b-e79d-4035-8295-b545f2d9f653

240 is more efficient , and it's a straight shot from the panel to the bench and I have a spare 240 breaker sitting in there

I have NO idea which of these brands are best though .
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 07:18 AM UTC
Folks, I'd be really careful with this one and PE. Most PE sets are out of necessity fairly soft brass, which will melt rather quickly when dealing with really tiny parts. I solder brass and other materials routinely, and am currently working on a scratchbuilt B17 waist gunner position in 1/15 scale. I use a butane torch and a resistance soldering unit from American Beauty for most soldering applications. I can dial down the wattage on the resistance soldering unit to less than 25 Watts, and sometimes that's even too hot for tiny PE. This set goes up to 700W, from the advertisement, (top rating for my resistance unit is 750W-- and that will burn thru most PE pretty quickly). Not saying it won't work for soldering brass, but I'd experiment with it first on some scrap PE.
VR, Russ
urumomo
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 07:26 AM UTC
My current issue is not being able to supply ENOUGH heat .
I get stuff done with a torch ,but having problems with the crappy irons I have .
Seen these things while looking into a better electric iron .

Things say 100 - 450 C , so I think it will be OK .
Prefer to get away from gas if possible .
urumomo
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 11:47 PM UTC
I went ahead and ordered this one :
https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Rework-Station-welder-YIHUA/dp/B01AOA9D3A/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1508179539&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=3+in+1+soldering+rework+station&psc=1

I'll let ya'll know if I survive
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:18 AM UTC
For the sake of my curiosity:
what kind of photo-etch are you working with?
It sounds as if it is really big pieces ...

It will be really interesting to hear/read the results
/ Robin
urumomo
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 08:56 AM UTC
Eh , nothing especially large , IMO , Robin
Some larger scratch-builds out of slightly thicker brass in 1/20.
The standard fare in 1/35

My issue is that the electric irons I have are crap --the only one that is powerful enough is a big , trigger actuated goof that is ill suited for any of this .
Like I was saying , I can get it done with a torch but I don't like the whole flame thing -- clumsy to start/stop and it's not fed by the never ending pixies that come out of the wall.
and I don't have the control I want with the amount of energy I'm dumping into the work .
The torch I use is junk too - so I could buy a better torch or get a better iron

I was intending to just order a decent iron with enough power but seeing those hot-air gizmos made me reconsider .

I've been wanting to make a soldering jig of some sort -- something to free me up from my extreme non-ambidextrous impediment -- Be experimenting with some ideas when this thing arrives

Also be nice to have that DC adjustable power-supply and a good iron for doing other things I have been doing ad hoc for too long .
.... . I think I will open it up and check all the continuities prior to launch though , , considering it's pedigree
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 02:01 PM UTC
Keep us posted and spread the gained experience/knowledge.

Many years ago I got myself a resistance soldering unit (apply solder to both surfaces, clamp togehter, push current through the joint, contact resistance will heat the joint, disconnect current, practice to get the correct current and timing).
Some of the others at the model railroad club were showing how it was done. Looked really smooth and the heating was very localised so it didn't melt adjacent joints (or burn fingertips ...), it also avoided the issue with too much heating which can cause distortion due to temperature stresses.

I have managed larger pieces with a 100 W soldering iron and if that is not enough there is the 200 w piece as well. Above that I'll switch to gas....
/ Robin
urumomo
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 04:48 PM UTC
How do you apply the solder prior to adding the heat ?
It's in paste form or something ? ,, or in a foil ?
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 05:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

How do you apply the solder prior to adding the heat ?
It's in paste form or something ? ,, or in a foil ?


Duh! I should have realised that I wouldn't get that omission past someone with your skills and knowledge

Conventional heat is needed to pre-tin the surfaces but it should work with tin paste too. Getting solder on two single parts is easier than trying to get the solder in position while holding the parts together AND trying to avoid the heat spreading and loosening other joints.

Another "feature" of this method that I completely forgot to mention is that the current can be applied with two main methods:
1: with something that looks like insulated tweezers with cables going to the points. Hold parts with "tweezer", push the button.
2: placing the work on an electrically conductive surface (slab of metal) and using a single electrode (like a small soldering iron) to push down the parts and apply current.

Having the work on a metal plate also provides a heat sink which keeps adjacent, already soldered, joints cool.

The "messy" part of the job is to prepare the surfaces and apply solder to them.
/ Robin
urumomo
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 05:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Duh! I should have realised that I wouldn't get that omission past someone with your skills and knowledge

/ Robin


Pfffttt ! - Whatever . Trying to get on my Christmas list or something ?

I'll need to look further into that after work today .
Prob order one of those rigs too !
Scarred
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 05:44 PM UTC
I have a couple clip on heat sinks handy for small parts and variable temp soldering station with a fine tip which is great for fine, pinpoint heat. And I have some X-acto extra hands which are pretty handy for soldering.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 06:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



Duh! I should have realised that I wouldn't get that omission past someone with your skills and knowledge

/ Robin


Pfffttt ! - Whatever . Trying to get on my Christmas list or something ?

I'll need to look further into that after work today .
Prob order one of those rigs too !



I found this, it's worth reading:
http://www.raymondwalley.com/misc/tools/rsu.html#.WeX-xDBLfNA

/ Robin
Kevlar06
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 08:05 PM UTC
I used to use a soldering iron and a torch for soldering work. But I was never happy with them for modeling. My wife asked me to repair some silver jewelry several years ago and I casually mentioned for that I'd need a resistance soldering unit. She said OK! I've never gone back. Resistance soldering sends an electric charge through the piece, which is met by an opposing electrical charge with a probe. The heat is confined to the exact spot you need soldered, and there is no heat at the probe end when the unit is off. I use a foot pedal to turn the circuit on and off, and can adjust the wattage with a simple rheostat. if I anchor my project on my workbench with masking tape, I can solder with one hand. I use simple liquid flux, and silver solder. I cut the solder into a peice the size of a pin head. The the unit requires two leads-- the other lead is an alligator clip, but I also have a tweezer type, which each side of the tweezer polarized. The only drawback I've found is that the probe tips ar carbon, and they break easily if I'm not careful with them, but they can be filed or ground to shape too (the other drawback is that now, I get lots of requests to repair or modify lots of jewelry from my wife!). Resistance units are expensive, but after buying 7-8 soldering units and several torches over my lifetime, I've found you get what you pay for-- kind of like an airbrush. I still use a torch occasionally on really large projects, or to anneal brass and other materials for bending, but a resistance soldering unit can't be beat for soldering. Micro-Mark carries them. They start at about $150-- and go up to about $450 depending on where you buy them and the brand, but it's well worth t he investment if you do a lot of soldering, especially if you solder PE.
VR, Russ
urumomo
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2017 - 08:21 PM UTC
I like !
... but this is gonna be job for SANTA

https://www.amazon.com/American-Beauty-10509-Probe-Style-Resistance/dp/B007S1YE3I/ref=sr_1_4?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1508253503&sr=8-4&keywords=resistance+soldering+station&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:17 AM UTC



Yup! Definitely a mission for Santa!


1100 W !!... Are you planning on soldering 1:1 scale armour plates? At 5 or maybe 10 Volts the current would be 220 to 110 A, that's more like a small arc welding unit.
/ Robin
urumomo
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Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 05:23 AM UTC
Go big or go home , plus I didn't see one with a 1/2 inch electrode

Man , I haven't been to Micro-Mark's website in a loooong time .
Totally new with greatly expanded stock .
Thanks for mentioning them , Russ .

https://www.micromark.com/250W-120v-Complete-Resistance-Soldering-Outfit-with-Tweezer-Handpiece

Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 06:29 AM UTC
Keith, yep, they've gone up in price a lot since I bought mine, which was back in 2007 for about $250-- price has crept up to $499 now I see! Micro mark still carries an "economy model" though, which I think is around $200? I see it in the hard copy catalogs they send me. It doesn't have the rheostat range or "bells and whistles" the American Beauty does, but I'm sure It works fine. I know there's a tutorial about building one on You-tube, but I'd be worried about safety issues. Resistance soldering changed my whole way of thinking about soldering. It's just so much easier- and safer too. But as I said, that brings a whole host of other issues-- I'm fixing jewelry items more than modeling lately, and frequently get requests from modeling friends to solder up thier PE too (I don't mind much though). A roll of solder seems to last forever too, as you don't need a lot to get a good bead. I scratchbuilt an entire 1/16 .50 caliber Aircraft machine gun with stock brass this summer (I didn't like the one that came in the Verlinden B-17 waist gun position). While I was at it I scratched the entire fuselage interior too, including stringers and ribs (I did cheat a little and use my torch to pre-heat certain joints because they were so large, and since the aircraft skin is one single sheet brass sheet I used my kitchen gas stove to anneal it for bending).
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Go big or go home , plus I didn't see one with a 1/2 inch electrode

Man , I haven't been to Micro-Mark's website in a loooong time .
Totally new with greatly expanded stock .
Thanks for mentioning them , Russ .

https://www.micromark.com/250W-120v-Complete-Resistance-Soldering-Outfit-with-Tweezer-Handpiece




Hmmmm....
You should get different hand pieces: pointy tweezer, wide clamping "pliers" and a pointy electrode with cable to a metal surface. Buying all of these separately could push the total cost up close to a more complete set.
Check around and sum up the totals before deciding.
It wouldn't be too difficult to make the other tools but weigh the time vs cost first ....
/ Robin
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 08:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Go big or go home , plus I didn't see one with a 1/2 inch electrode

Man , I haven't been to Micro-Mark's website in a loooong time .
Totally new with greatly expanded stock .
Thanks for mentioning them , Russ .

https://www.micromark.com/250W-120v-Complete-Resistance-Soldering-Outfit-with-Tweezer-Handpiece




Hmmmm....
You should get different hand pieces: pointy tweezer, wide clamping "pliers" and a pointy electrode with cable to a metal surface. Buying all of these separately could push the total cost up close to a more complete set.
Check around and sum up the totals before deciding.
It wouldn't be too difficult to make the other tools but weigh the time vs cost first ....
/ Robin


Actually, I have all three of the hand pieces, but the only two I routinely use are the pointy tweezers and the pointed electrode with the alligator clip. I've used the wide clamp type tweezers only once, as it's designed for really large jobs, and frankly most hobby work is done on a smaller scale. Using those large clamps requires more wattage, which will melt PE brass in an instant. For me, the pointed probe and alligator clip have the most utility, but sometimes it's difficult to get the alligator clip attached on smaller parts, and that's where the tweezer type comes in handy. They also sell replacement carbon tips, and I recommend buying a box as you are bound to break a tip occasionally. You can also cut the tips in half to make them shorter, which in turn gives you twice the amount of tips, but shorter tips also make the hand pieces easier to use by putting them closer to the work. The tips can be ground or sanded for different applications too-- you can make them flat, sharpen them to a point, or "cup" them for a better grip. A foot switch is also very useful, since you can turn the unit on and off without using your hands. The application of heat is instantaneous and momentary, if you hold the electrodes to a surface for longer than 20 or 30 seconds, you run the risk of burning out the unit. But there is no heat when the circuit is broken, so lifting the tip away from the work means it's not heated. The foot switch allows you to rest the tip on the work and with one tap of your foot you have an instant circuit, release the foot, and it's off. Again, these units are expensive, but if you solder a lot they are well worth cost. It's also the best way to scratch build in brass.
VR, Russ
urumomo
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Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 09:09 PM UTC
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