Hi guys
I've been thinking about the days when Dragon used to release kits bursting with extras- magic tracks, metal barrels, brass shells, specially comissioned figures, metal buckets, exhaust shields, etc.
These days, the few kits they do release are quite spartan as far as extras go. They certainly don't seem as generous or prolific as they were maybe eight to 10 years ago.
I realise that this must be the result of the long and sustained global economic downturn, but recently there have been quite a lot of very comparable or even better quality kits being released from companies such as Meng, Rye Field and others. These kits are absolutely state of the art, often contain interesting extras and individual link tracks unlike Dragon whose kits all come with the very mediocre DS tracks now.
I wonder, how has Dragon found that the recent competition impacted on their sales?
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Will competition be good?
Vierville
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 384 posts
Armorama: 372 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 05:12 PM UTC
ryally
Joined: July 29, 2005
KitMaker: 879 posts
Armorama: 330 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 05:37 PM UTC
To be honest I just wish Tamiya added some of Dragon models stuff to their kits and I would be happy. I wish Tamiya would add clear parts such as lights,periscopes, click together tracks, metal barrel, metal tow cables ( some,not a lot of PE) and better crew figures and I would be more than happy. The thing that put me off about Dragon kits and it's funny is not the kit, it's the messy instructions and the errors in it. Most modellers have a cupboard full of models!!!
I don't need a 2000 part kit to make me feel like a modeller but I do want clear instructions and I don't really need 50% of the kit that are not used from other variants in the box. I guess that's why I like Tamiya
I don't need a 2000 part kit to make me feel like a modeller but I do want clear instructions and I don't really need 50% of the kit that are not used from other variants in the box. I guess that's why I like Tamiya
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 05:57 PM UTC
The competition will likely have a impact to Dragon's sales and profits if these new kits from other vendors are as they advertise. I am sure Dragon is watching how the market is responding and will adjust thier products to meet the demand or close it doors. Nothing gets a business attention when inventory is not leaving the factory and money is not coming in.
Listening to some of the reviews on-line and you-tube about these new releases and it sounds like they have their issues. I thought a few of them were cheaply made and had poor detail for the price asking.
I hate Dragon instructions as much as everyone else, the ones for the KMS Scharhorst 1943 kit was the worst I every experienced. Yet their customer service here in USA is top notch. They were quickly able to correct any issue I had with several kits within two weeks of email and shipping the replacement part to me.
Listening to some of the reviews on-line and you-tube about these new releases and it sounds like they have their issues. I thought a few of them were cheaply made and had poor detail for the price asking.
I hate Dragon instructions as much as everyone else, the ones for the KMS Scharhorst 1943 kit was the worst I every experienced. Yet their customer service here in USA is top notch. They were quickly able to correct any issue I had with several kits within two weeks of email and shipping the replacement part to me.
Vierville
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 384 posts
Armorama: 372 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 06:52 PM UTC
Yeah, Dragon's instructions have always been confusing at best...
I can say after looking at two of their Tiger 1 kits that Rye Field produces models that are, in my opinion at least, 95% as good as Dragon's BUT with the individual link tracks that they supply with the kit (which are as good as Modelkasten's), their kits have a serious advantage! I'm waiting for my Meng Panther to arrive but from what I've read about it, It's a cracker...
I can say after looking at two of their Tiger 1 kits that Rye Field produces models that are, in my opinion at least, 95% as good as Dragon's BUT with the individual link tracks that they supply with the kit (which are as good as Modelkasten's), their kits have a serious advantage! I'm waiting for my Meng Panther to arrive but from what I've read about it, It's a cracker...
j76lr
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,081 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 06:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
To be honest I just wish Tamiya added some of Dragon models stuff to their kits and I would be happy. I wish Tamiya would add clear parts such as lights,periscopes, click together tracks, metal barrel, metal tow cables ( some,not a lot of PE) and better crew figures and I would be more than happy. The thing that put me off about Dragon kits and it's funny is not the kit, it's the messy instructions and the errors in it. Most modellers have a cupboard full of models!!!
I don't need a 2000 part kit to make me feel like a modeller but I do want clear instructions and I don't really need 50% of the kit that are not used from other variants in the box. I guess that's why I like Tamiya
well said ! i feel the same way .
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 08:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
To be honest I just wish Tamiya added some of Dragon models stuff to their kits and I would be happy. I wish Tamiya would add clear parts such as lights,periscopes, click together tracks, metal barrel, metal tow cables ( some,not a lot of PE) and better crew figures and I would be more than happy. The thing that put me off about Dragon kits and it's funny is not the kit, it's the messy instructions and the errors in it. Most modellers have a cupboard full of models!!!
I don't need a 2000 part kit to make me feel like a modeller but I do want clear instructions and I don't really need 50% of the kit that are not used from other variants in the box. I guess that's why I like Tamiya
I have Tamiya's 25180 kit which is their new, if 5 years old counts as new, M51 with loads of Aber PE. So this beautiful kit with almost as much metal as plastic, still has Tamiya's classic style rubber band tracks. If Tamiya could make just one improvement across it's whole line of tank kits it should be better tracks. That is the only AM part I'll need to purchase to make this a perfect kit.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 09:00 PM UTC
Actually, Tamiya's vehicle crews (Archer, M10, and SU76) all have very well sculpted figures, including faces, and are designed to fit in their respective vehicles. The last Tamiya figure set I bought (WWl British infantry) are also very well sculpted even if slightly on the petit side.
Trisaw
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 09:51 PM UTC
I'm wondering why Dragon (DML) hasn't released anything under their Star Wars license.
I mean two years later (since December 2015) and nothing? Bandai and Revell have already released "The Last Jedi" Star Wars kits.
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=251476
I was hoping for some 1/35 Dragon Star Wars ground vehicle kits and figures, but so far it's like "zero for zero" as of 2018. I'll just stick with Bandai and Finemolds for Star Wars kits...
I mean two years later (since December 2015) and nothing? Bandai and Revell have already released "The Last Jedi" Star Wars kits.
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=251476
I was hoping for some 1/35 Dragon Star Wars ground vehicle kits and figures, but so far it's like "zero for zero" as of 2018. I'll just stick with Bandai and Finemolds for Star Wars kits...
McRunty
#491
Joined: April 06, 2016
KitMaker: 602 posts
Armorama: 191 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 09:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm waiting for my Meng Panther to arrive but from what I've read about it, It's a cracker...
I have this kit in my stash and it looks amazing. Lots of extra's. Turned metal barrel, Good amount of PE, buckets etc. My only gripe is the tracks and that's because I hate putting tracks together (the tracks do look really good, very detailed)
Iraqiwildman
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 93 posts
Armorama: 81 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 10:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually, Tamiya's vehicle crews (Archer, M10, and SU76) all have very well sculpted figures, including faces, and are designed to fit in their respective vehicles. The last Tamiya figure set I bought (WWl British infantry) are also very well sculpted even if slightly on the petit side.
I have built the Archer and M10 along with Tamiya's new M4A3E8 recently. I really like the included figures. They have well molded in an action pose that fits great with the tank. I do a little undercutting of their collars and belts, but there heads are nicely done.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 10:43 PM UTC
A few years ago, Dragon announced they would be moving into the fantasy and toy market more. I think that's been showing lately as the number of "new" dragon releases ( in 1/35 Armor and 1/32 aircraft) has been declining. They also seem to be re-releasing many of thier older kits in newer boxings with add-ons like figure sets, and thier "DS" tracks. The new kits they have released, especially in th Black Label" line, seem to have many shortcomings. Bottom line-- I agree that competition may be driving them, but I'm not sure it's the external competition that's affecting thier armor line-- I think they may be focusing in other areas.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 05:12 AM UTC
Haven't seen much in the way of fantasy stuff from Dragon - not even the Star Wars kits they were advertising.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 05:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Haven't seen much in the way of fantasy stuff from Dragon - not even the Star Wars kits they were advertising.
yeah still waiting for the 1/35 AT-AT they were talking about.
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 05:53 AM UTC
Dragon's health is certainly a question for me. Their business model does not seem to be a sustainable one, especially with the rise of Rye Field, Meng, and Taking. Over the years Dragon has been significantly reducing the number of PE, metal barrels, and magic tracks in their kits. Meanwhile, they have increased their prices. Their release schedule has become more and more Spartan.
The sad thing is that Dragon is sitting on wasted potential. Some of their kits, like the Ha-go and their Panzers, are among the best styrene kits available. Other kits, like anything in their Black Label catalogue, are complete garbage.
Hopefully, the competition wakes the sleeping Dragon, but I have little doubt the aforementioned competition will replace it if it does not.
The sad thing is that Dragon is sitting on wasted potential. Some of their kits, like the Ha-go and their Panzers, are among the best styrene kits available. Other kits, like anything in their Black Label catalogue, are complete garbage.
Hopefully, the competition wakes the sleeping Dragon, but I have little doubt the aforementioned competition will replace it if it does not.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 07:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHaven't seen much in the way of fantasy stuff from Dragon - not even the Star Wars kits they were advertising.
yeah still waiting for the 1/35 AT-AT they were talking about.
When I said “fantasy” I was referring to the Asian toy market. They said a few years ago they were looking at casting fantasy large scale figures and toys.
VR, Russ
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 08:50 AM UTC
It seems Dragon is content to simply re-issue kits with less goodies, or make frankenkits with sprues from two, three or even four different kits with fantastical instructions. . They seem content to foist these on the modelling public while making a buttload of money on Disney, Marvel and DC toys.
wowcool
Joined: September 26, 2015
KitMaker: 113 posts
Armorama: 106 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 06:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have built the Archer and M10 along with Tamiya's new M4A3E8 recently. I really like the included figures. They have well molded in an action pose that fits great with the tank. I do a little undercutting of their collars and belts, but there heads are nicely done.
Tamiya's new figures are made from 3D scans of real people, giving them a very realistic appearance. They're currently the only injection kit manufacturer to do figures like this AFAIK.
Vierville
Joined: April 05, 2014
KitMaker: 384 posts
Armorama: 372 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 08:05 PM UTC
Tamiya's new figures ARE excellent! I got their US Tank crew ETO set which was released last year and it is very much noticably better than their older releases and superior to all the other injection moulded US tank crew sets that I have.
I see that Tamiya has released a Wehrmacht tank crew set but it is not available anywhere that I normally get my models from.
I see that Tamiya has released a Wehrmacht tank crew set but it is not available anywhere that I normally get my models from.
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Friday, January 19, 2018 - 05:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Tamiya's new figures ARE excellent! I got their US Tank crew ETO set which was released last year and it is very much noticably better than their older releases and superior to all the other injection moulded US tank crew sets that I have.
I see that Tamiya has released a Wehrmacht tank crew set but it is not available anywhere that I normally get my models from.
yes those US guys are quite nice, and the German crew looks good but is still not widely available at a decent price. Tamiya has upped their figure game recently, for sure. Their tank crews in the newer kits are alright as well.
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