_GOTOBOTTOM
Constructive Feedback
For in-progress or completed build photos. Give and get contructive feedback!
Hosted by Darren Baker, Dave O'Meara
Puttin' out more Shermans Pt. 2
Hollowpoint
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Friday, April 02, 2004 - 05:58 PM UTC
A few more from my Sherman collection. Again, please remember that I did not build these in the last couple months (or even years, with most).

First up, an M4 105mm howitizer tank, using an Italeri M4A3 hull as the base, reworked rear end transplanted from an Italeri M4A1 hull, Panzer Concepts turret. Scratch dust cover and lot sof other stuff. This was built long before the Tamiya M4A3 105 kit came out.



Next, a couple Fireflies.

The first, a Firefly VC -- not DML -- this one is AEF from the late 1980s. The upper hull, 3-piece final drive, turret and gun are AEF. The lower hull is originally from an Italeri M4A1 kit -- cut apart and extended a bit between each bogie. Yow, keeping that all straight and aligned ... LOTS of scratchbuilt details added, including the smoke dischargers and radio box.

The figure is out of the Tamiya Matilda with Milliputt trousers added.





The next is a DML Firefly IC kit that started well and was messed up with the finish.

I tired a whitewash technique out of FSM -- I don't like the results. Figure is Ultracast.



I want to recover this, but I don't want to tear it up. Not sure of a solution -- suggestions welcome.
jackhammer81
Visit this Community
Nebraska, United States
Joined: August 12, 2003
KitMaker: 2,394 posts
Armorama: 1,695 posts
Posted: Friday, April 02, 2004 - 06:19 PM UTC
Very very nice work there, I have the sherman 105 waiting in the wings and seeing your work has me itching to get at it. As far as the winter camo goes I have been scared to try that on a tank as of yet, have you thought of using regular bleach to loosen the paint i used it on a model i needed to refinish i let it soak for a couple days and hit it with a scrub brush then let it soak some more after three trys i got all the paint off but remember to cover the container that bleach has a strong odor. cheers Kevin
tazz
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,462 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 12:41 PM UTC
nice shermans bob, and thanks for helping me with my drive sprockets .
seeing these shermans make me wanna finish mine, lol.
but iam takeing my sweet time
sgtreef
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 01:21 PM UTC
Nice Shermans Hollowpoint.
Great job the whitewsah is maybe alittle underdone,but good anyway
RotorHead67
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 08:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text


The next is a DML Firefly IC kit that started well and was messed up with the finish.

I tired a whitewash technique out of FSM -- I don't like the results. Figure is Ultracast.



I want to recover this, but I don't want to tear it up. Not sure of a solution -- suggestions welcome.


Hollowpoint:
As for your finish REDUEX I would try Pactra Lift Off. It will allow you to remove the paint, but it wont destroy the model assembly. Use a toothbrush and let the model soak for bout 2 hrs. Then SCRUBBY SCRUBBY. That way you can repaint but it wont break apart the model. It has worked for me in the past for the same type of problems.
Good luck !!
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 12:30 AM UTC
Bob-- try Easy Off Oven Cleaner sprayed on the vehicle then place the entire model inside a large freezer bag over night. Toothbrush with warm water the next day usually takes off all the paint and loosens the glue.
DJ
shonen_red
Visit this Community
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
Armorama: 2,283 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 01:28 AM UTC
On the whitewash, since you used pastels, water is your best bet. (As long as the undercoat is sealed in, only the pastels will come out).
TreadHead
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 02:44 AM UTC
Howdy Hollowpoint,

Thx for sharing some of your Sherman's As you know, I've recently contracted an apparently debilitating case of 'ShermanAMS'. So your Sherman pictures are just what the doctor ordered (I'm adding them to my 'drip' bottle as we speak ).
I have had my eye on the Firefly's for some time (because of the British treatment of the subject......could never figure out why the U.S. never followed that lead). Your build-ups look dandy. Tell me, was the DML kit a good one? That is the one I'm thinking about.

As to the stripping of the paint, I've heard only good things about 'Easy-Off'......not sure about the brake fluid idea though .....sorry WeWillHold, it probably works fine, but just 'feels' too caustic and messy to me (but then I'm suggesting 'Easy-Off' for crikkey sakes!)

Regards,

Tread.

Oh...almost forgot Hollowpoint. Could you show us some close-up pics of your bogies??
Hollowpoint
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 03:05 AM UTC
Hey fellas -- thanks for all the suggestions. I don't want to take the IC down to bare plastic; I just want to get the whitewash off, so I think I'll skip the oven cleaner and brake fluid.

WWH -- no star on the M4(105)? I couldn't see any in the photo I was working from. They were probably painted out on the original, or maybe never applied. I don't know. I kinda like it "plain."

Tread -- If you can find that DML Firefly IC kit, go for it. It is very, very nice and comes with an extra turret (for building a U.S. flame thrower Sherman). I'd like to get another, but these kits are getting pretty rare and prices on-line are approaching those of the elusive DML M4A1. I stumbled across this one in a hobby shop -- I'm sure the guy had no idea it was a rare kit -- probably been sitting there for years!

You want bogey photos? I'll see what I can do. The bogeys on that Firefly IC are tricked out.
GunTruck
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 03:06 AM UTC
Um, Bob, why do you have to remove the finish at all? If it was done in enamels - then work your new weathering over it in acrylics - and use a new technique. Vise-versa if the original finish was acrylic based.

I think the original finish you have there would make a good base point to work some different magic...

Gunnie
Hollowpoint
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 03:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Um, Bob, why do you have to remove the finish at all? If it was done in enamels - then work your new weathering over it in acrylics - and use a new technique. Vise-versa if the original finish was acrylic based.

I think the original finish you have there would make a good base point to work some different magic...

Gunnie


Yeah, this is kind of my line of thinking, too.

The technique in FSM involved grinding up white pastel and mixing it with water to make a paste. The paste is applied to the model and when it has dried, the excess is scrubbed off with stiff brushes. I think it went wrong for me because the pastels just weren't ground fine enough.

The photos this model is based on -- page 324 in Hunnicutt's Sherman -- one pic shows an IC in faded whitewash grinding through deep mud. I think I may try to use washes to "convert" some of the whitewash to mud.
GunTruck
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The technique in FSM involved grinding up white pastel and mixing it with water to make a paste. The paste is applied to the model and when it has dried, the excess is scrubbed off with stiff brushes. I think it went wrong for me because the pastels just weren't ground fine enough.


I remember that article. I always thought that there was too much pastel chalk in the water in that application. I weathered my T-55A using pastels suspended in water - but really, really small amounts. No "Paste" - it's too heavy, regardless of how fine the pastels are ground. The technique, like all others recently, is just too easy to overdo.







If I were approaching your Sherman model at this stage, I'd use whites and off-white/grey pastels, to tone the shadows deeper - but avoiding straight black. There's enough depth in your original finish. For the spare tracks I'd use dark brown pastels with a tiny touch of an orange or raw siena if you have it to deepen the shadows where the white has accumulated. The orange and raw siena will contrast sharply with the white and grey pastels - I would be careful not to get a great deal on them - unless you're going for the rusted effect in certain worn areas. When I weathered my T-55A above, I am mimicing the red-brown clay found in the Southern Urals. However, for most modelers, combinations of red-brown colors always says "rust" before anything else because they just don't always know what you're going for. I wouldn't introduce any highly contrasting colors unless you can easily "explain" it by your model's setting.

I think at that point the model will look different to you and you'd likely want to work streaks and some diffuse (stippling with the pastels) in the centers of large open areas. I bet it'll come out nicely. Perhaps to top it all off, the most contrast I'd go for is a thinned (grimy dark) overspray on the lower hull and running gear. Burnt Umber would be my choice here as it would give you a chance to employ a lighter drybrush technique to bring back out any highlights or details on the tracks and bogies...

I guess you can tell I like your model...

Gunnie
Hollowpoint
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 04:25 AM UTC
Thanks for the tips and advice, Jim!

I'm still learning how to get the most out of pastels -- I like the subtle weathering better than the old "wash and dry-brush" technique we did back in the old days. Now, if I can just keep my big ol' thumb out of the stuff!
TreadHead
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 04:27 AM UTC


Lordy Mama Gunnie......nice '55. And it's always nice to hear your techniques. I really like how you handled the hull mounted aux. fuel tanks. I'd also love to see some close-ups of the front of the hull between the front fenders if at all possible.

As to your pastel suggestions. Since it sounds like you are trying for some deeper shadows in the 'nooks and crannies', and a lighter treatment in the "centers of large open areas", how do you feel about the use of pigments in the N&C's and pastels in the 'open areas'?
I'm curious.

Thanks as always.

Tread.

And when it comes to a winter white-wash paint scheme, I'm a big fan of a technique used in a book called 'Panzer's Tactics', by Chris Mrosko. Fairly simple to do, very effective, and it really looks accurate IMHO. The simplistic white-wash material that was used, washed off the sides of the vehicle from the top down in most cases, and his technique of drawing the brush down the sides of the vehicle with the emphasis (I'm assuming) on the top of the panel being treated, creates a realistic 'wearing away' of the hastily (in most cases) applied white-wash.
GunTruck
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 05:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Lordy Mama Gunnie......nice '55. And it's always nice to hear your techniques. I really like how you handled the hull mounted aux. fuel tanks. I'd also love to see some close-ups of the front of the hull between the front fenders if at all possible.








I hope I was able to get clear and close enough to show you the front hull section you wanted to see Tread. There are several colors used here to mimic weather conditions, terrain, and crew wear & tear.


Quoted Text

As to your pastel suggestions. Since it sounds like you are trying for some deeper shadows in the 'nooks and crannies', and a lighter treatment in the "centers of large open areas", how do you feel about the use of pigments in the N&C's and pastels in the 'open areas'?


Yes - this is the technique I used on this model. I use pastel/water for the open areas because it is lighter and easier to control. For shadows, nooks & crannies, I use the heavier and more vibrant "figments" - in this case, weathering powders produced by 5-Star Tools (VLS Corp). Very tiny amounts of "pigments" and or "figments" go a real long way. I apply these with 5/0 and 10/0 brushes - that's how little you need to use to create a dramatic effect. Deft choices of combinations of colors really can make a dramatic impact for the observer.


Quoted Text

And when it comes to a winter white-wash paint scheme, I'm a big fan of a technique used in a book called 'Panzer's Tactics', by Chris Mrosko. Fairly simple to do, very effective, and it really looks accurate IMHO. The simplistic white-wash material that was used, washed off the sides of the vehicle from the top down in most cases, and his technique of drawing the brush down the sides of the vehicle with the emphasis (I'm assuming) on the top of the panel being treated, creates a realistic 'wearing away' of the hastily (in most cases) applied white-wash.


Yes - I know/have Chris' book and have seen some of these models he worked in person - though it's been years since I've run into him at a model show. I like the technique and style, though I choose to approach the effect in a different manner. It's great that modeling is like going to Rome - there are many ways to get to the end result...

Gunnie
Stahlhelm
Visit this Community
Oregon, United States
Joined: April 03, 2004
KitMaker: 414 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 06:09 AM UTC
Jim,

Not having read the FSM article or Chris' book I make these comments without context as my addition may in fact have been addressed by those two sources...I rely on the pastels suspended in water technique but also add enough 'Glass Plus' to the water to eliminate surface tension which causes water to 'bead' - makes it one heck of alot easier to control the grunge. I also add a small amount of model railroad ballast cement to the ground-up pastels which gives a bit of texture and fastens the pastels to the models.

Cody
GunTruck
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 08:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Jim,

Not having read the FSM article or Chris' book I make these comments without context as my addition may in fact have been addressed by those two sources...I rely on the pastels suspended in water technique but also add enough 'Glass Plus' to the water to eliminate surface tension which causes water to 'bead' - makes it one heck of alot easier to control the grunge. I also add a small amount of model railroad ballast cement to the ground-up pastels which gives a bit of texture and fastens the pastels to the models.

Cody


Thanks for the additional tips! Breaking the surface tension makes life much easier in the pastel/water technique. I sometimes do this so fast that I forget to stop and think about the little things that help the overall technique work. I haven't tried the ballast cement though - that sounds interesting. I haven't lost any pastels after drying because of a tiny drop of white glue that I pre-mix in the water before working on the model. Perhaps that does the same thing as the railroad ballast - I'm gonna have to give it a try...

Gunnie
TreadHead
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 01:49 AM UTC
Howdy Gunnie,

Man...just as in your 'Bloommobile' posting, I am at a loss for words. Your final result on the Bloommobile left me searching for the proper response (which is why I haven't responded to it yet). And this paint work on the '55 is sublime.

With all apologies to Hollowpoint for bogarting his thread { very sorry sir }, I must say once again. Gunnie, you are both a source of inspiration, and a source of anguish.
You inspire me to better my modeling talents, and at the same time fill me with anguish at feeling like I'm on a slippery slope of higher learning.

...maybe I just need better free-climbing gear!..........now, where's that REI catalog?!

Tread.
 _GOTOTOP