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For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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M88A3 on the way
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
Armorama: 1,316 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 06:33 AM UTC
knewton
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 1,217 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 06:40 AM UTC
Interesting news, thank you for the link. The M88A3 configuration features an upgraded powertrain, suspension and tracks, increasing the vehicle’s speed, survivability and reliability.
The M88A3 also features a seventh road wheel to reduce ground pressure and new hydropneumatic suspension units (HSUs) that enable the track to be locked out for greater control when recovering vehicles, say BAE in a release. Does not look like a straight forward conversion of existing kits, either.
The M88A3 also features a seventh road wheel to reduce ground pressure and new hydropneumatic suspension units (HSUs) that enable the track to be locked out for greater control when recovering vehicles, say BAE in a release. Does not look like a straight forward conversion of existing kits, either.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 06:50 AM UTC
Interesting. Externally, it looks only to be different in the suspension and roadwheels, which are closer together to fit the 7th one. The rest of it looks like an M88A2. Looks like it has T158LL tracks too.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 07:17 AM UTC
M88A2 from roughly the same angle if someone wants to compare wheel spacing:
The tighter spacing on the A3 is rather obvious ..
That canvas cover could be a modelling workaround if the small topside details have gone missing from the kit ...
/ Robin
The tighter spacing on the A3 is rather obvious ..
That canvas cover could be a modelling workaround if the small topside details have gone missing from the kit ...
/ Robin
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
Armorama: 1,316 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 07:30 AM UTC
First thing I did was compare pics to see how they squeezed that extra road wheel in. Looks like the engine deck is a bit chunkier too.
knewton
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 1,217 posts
Armorama: 1,092 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 08:53 AM UTC
Funky colours used in that three tone, too.
Robin, love the image with the cover on. Casper the friendly recovery vehicle!
Probability of this as a kit or conversion?
Robin, love the image with the cover on. Casper the friendly recovery vehicle!
Probability of this as a kit or conversion?
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 09:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Robin, love the image with the cover on. Casper the friendly recovery vehicle!
Just paint the face on the cover up front
Is there even an M88A2 as a complete kit?
A conversion would need a new lower hull with repositioned roadwheels, axles etc. so it would need a lot of resin. The "HSU" are new so reusing the suspension from AFV-Clubs M88 will probably not work either ...
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 02:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Is there even an M88A2 as a complete kit?
No, there is the AFV Club M88A1 and the Legend M88A2 conversion set. Real Model also did an M88A2 conversion, but I am not sure it is still being produced. In my opinion, the Legend set is better.
Legend set
knewton
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 1,217 posts
Armorama: 1,092 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2019 - 03:13 PM UTC
Yeah Robin, you’d have to be careful you don’t end up looking like those other guys that wear sheets, too.... back to tanks, thanks. Love that camo!
exgrunt
Joined: December 17, 2013
KitMaker: 301 posts
Armorama: 301 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2019 - 12:47 PM UTC
So what's the deal with the camo scheme? Just a one-off or is this a new scheme being rolled out by the Army?
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2019 - 10:15 PM UTC
Did a little Googling, and saw the new suspension is hydro-pneumatic - that explains how they shoe-horned an extra wheel into a hull originally perforated for six torsion bars! When it comes out in plastic (hint to Takom, Meng!) it'll be well-cool.
AmTrac1833
#431
Joined: February 20, 2014
KitMaker: 376 posts
Armorama: 311 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2019 - 01:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Did a little Googling, and saw the new suspension is hydro-pneumatic - that explains how they shoe-horned an extra wheel into a hull originally perforated for six torsion bars! When it comes out in plastic (hint to Takom, Meng!) it'll be well-cool.
If it is the full hydro-pneumatic suspension arms the they've done away with torsion bars.
Wonder if we'll start seeing this camo on Bradleys.
exgrunt
Joined: December 17, 2013
KitMaker: 301 posts
Armorama: 301 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2019 - 02:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
d
Wonder if we'll start seeing this camo on Bradleys.
That was my question too. Seems like it's designed to be a one-solution fits all scheme, with the large patches of desert sand.
I guess it beats sending combat units to Eastern Europe in overall desert sand.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2019 - 04:59 AM UTC
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2019 - 06:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextDid a little Googling, and saw the new suspension is hydro-pneumatic - that explains how they shoe-horned an extra wheel into a hull originally perforated for six torsion bars! When it comes out in plastic (hint to Takom, Meng!) it'll be well-cool.
If it is the full hydro-pneumatic suspension arms the they've done away with torsion bars.
Wonder if we'll start seeing this camo on Bradleys.
Exactly! But part of me wonders why it wasn't fitted out with more Abrams parts, to reduce the amount of different stock they need to ship out...
LonCray
Joined: August 24, 2005
KitMaker: 348 posts
Armorama: 256 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 07:28 AM UTC
It does seem odd that they're still using the M60-based machine and not going to an M1 base. Heck, if they can stick an M109 turret on a Bradley and call it the A7, why can't the M88A3 be M1 based? Ah, well, if only the model companies put it out in 1/35 styrene then I'll be happy.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 08:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It does seem odd that they're still using the M60-based machine and not going to an M1 base. Heck, if they can stick an M109 turret on a Bradley and call it the A7, why can't the M88A3 be M1 based?
It comes down to cost. It is still cheaper to upgrade the M88 than it is to make an all new, M1-based recovery vehicle. The M1 ARV would actually have to be bigger than an M1 to pull it, which makes it an even more expensive vehicle.
As the the M109A7, it isn't a Bradley hull at all. It is on an all-new hull that uses Bradley running gear and drive train components, thus making it a more common parts stream with the Bradley.
M109A7 Paladin
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
Armorama: 1,316 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 10:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It does seem odd that they're still using the M60-based machine and not going to an M1 base. Heck, if they can stick an M109 turret on a Bradley and call it the A7, why can't the M88A3 be M1 based? Ah, well, if only the model companies put it out in 1/35 styrene then I'll be happy.
I could be wrong, but isn’t the M88 actually based on the M48?
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 10:29 AM UTC
Sort of. It is based on parts from both the M48 and M60. A heavily modified lower hull, running gear, and drive train.
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 12:12 PM UTC
I could see putting the engine and transmission in a recovery M1-otherwise, I don’t think the turbine has quite the power and torque as the ‘88. The ‘88 is a very, very powerful vehicle.
Dan
Dan
nikon1
Joined: April 11, 2005
KitMaker: 622 posts
Armorama: 605 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 02:25 PM UTC
I wonder what the tracked IFV is that was displayed by bAE
Cheers
Charlie
Cheers
Charlie
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 06:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I wonder what the tracked IFV is that was displayed by bAE
Cheers
Charlie
The one at 0:16 to 0:19 and then covered by a tarp in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeUaxq56GbQ ?
It seems to be the latest vaersion of the CV90:
https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/cv90
Mk IV?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aO7Kgb5CHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPa2mofufPE
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 07:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Looks like it has T158LL tracks too.
No, it certainly does not. Just look at spare track links on the hull. That is some new track type.
accelr8
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 159 posts
Armorama: 156 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 04:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextLooks like it has T158LL tracks too.
No, it certainly does not. Just look at spare track links on the hull. That is some new track type.
Dead-on as usual, Pawel. It appears to be some type of replaceable chevron, judging by the pictures. There's also a hollow center guide, and i'd feel safe in guessing that it has the same 28 inch width and pitch as the old T107.
Regarding not using a turbine, IIRC it's due to the superior torque characteristics of a big turbodiesel.
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