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M4A3E8?
Bus
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 846 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 06:03 AM UTC
Hey guys!IŽll build this sherman for the campaign..the M4A3E8, does it fits to the rules??
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 06:11 AM UTC
No, the M4A3E8 did not enter service until fall of 1944.
shonen_red
Joined: February 20, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 09:37 PM UTC
How about the M4A3E2?
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
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Posted: Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 10:25 PM UTC
According to Chamberlain & Ellis 'Encyclopedia of British & American tanks of WW2' the Jumbo started to be manufactured at the Grand Blanc Arsenal in May/June 1944, so it's doubtful that any of them made it across in time.
Anyone else have any info on the actual ' in combat' date for this vehicle?
Anyone else have any info on the actual ' in combat' date for this vehicle?
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 04:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
According to Chamberlain & Ellis 'Encyclopedia of British & American tanks of WW2' the Jumbo started to be manufactured at the Grand Blanc Arsenal in May/June 1944, so it's doubtful that any of them made it across in time.
Anyone else have any info on the actual ' in combat' date for this vehicle?
Hunnicutt says they arrived in Europe in the fall of 1944.
Bus -- your best bet for a D-Day Sherman is an M4 (like the Tamiya kit), an early M4A1 75mm (like Formations or the rare Dragon kit), or go British with a Dragon M4A4 or Firefly VC or IC. Here's a nice little page on Normandy Shermans: http://www.britannica.com/normandy/week3/sherman01.html
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 05:07 AM UTC
Thanks for clearing that up Hollowpoint. 
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
Armorama: 3,777 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 11:03 AM UTC
I think it's nuts that D-Day, one of the greatest military campaigns in history, has so few Sherman kits suitable for a US Sherman. As far as I know there is only the expensive Tamiya Early M4 and the OOP DML M4A1 Early. Everything else is a resin aftermarket set up and you have to buy a donor kit too.
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 12:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I think it's nuts that D-Day, one of the greatest military campaigns in history, has so few Sherman kits suitable for a US Sherman. As far as I know there is only the expensive Tamiya Early M4 and the OOP DML M4A1 Early. Everything else is a resin aftermarket set up and you have to buy a donor kit too.
Sad but true.
Of course, you have to remember that most models are based on surviving examples -- and most of what survived is late war.
BTW, Tamiya M4s are pretty cheap when you get them at the Hobby Lobby half-price sale. If you really want one, they are not too hard to find.
Bus
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 846 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 12, 2004 - 05:47 AM UTC
Thanks guys!! 
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 12, 2004 - 06:51 AM UTC
Hollowpoint. I do not live anywhere near a Hobby Lobby although I see you guys posting notices about their sales all the time. Given that, the LHS sells the Tamiya M4 Early for about $38, significantly more than most other kits out there the same age. Tried eBay and I was unable to win one at a discount to the LHS. Had to Buy It Now at $30 + shipping. so I saved about $2 but have to wait a week.
FiveOduece
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 159 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 04:44 PM UTC
Would a M4A3 105mm work? The britannica site shows it as one of the tanks at Normandy.
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
Armorama: 2,130 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:54 PM UTC
M4A3 105mm should be fine. My bible (Encyclopedia of British & American Tanks of WW2) gives the start of M4A3(105) production as April 1944, so it's possible that they had reached the UK in time to join the invasion fleet. Check out the unit that you are modelling and you should find out when they landed.
The 105mm turret was certainly in use, as there is a photo of a Free French M4(105) with 47degree hull front etc. landing from an LST on 6th June.
The 105mm turret was certainly in use, as there is a photo of a Free French M4(105) with 47degree hull front etc. landing from an LST on 6th June.
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2004 - 05:29 AM UTC
According to a recent discussion over on ML, the M4 105mm was in service during the landings. The M4A3 105mm was not in service until late in 1944.
Dave, as per your ref pic, I have the same book and posted that pic on ML. I questioned the Free French landing on D-Day. Turns out that photo was not on 6-6-44 but some time shortly afterwards.
Dave, as per your ref pic, I have the same book and posted that pic on ML. I questioned the Free French landing on D-Day. Turns out that photo was not on 6-6-44 but some time shortly afterwards.
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
Armorama: 2,130 posts
Posted: Friday, April 16, 2004 - 05:35 AM UTC
I stand corrected. Just goes to show that even what's in print, and from a respected source, can't always be taken as gospel.
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2004 - 05:43 AM UTC
Dave, I was completely blown away by the detail some of our military historians were able to dig up from one photo. If you look carefully you will see the LST number on the tank. Tracing that number to the landing schedule they were able to to determine the exact days that specific LST unloaded cargo in Normandy (It apprently unloaded several times during the campaign). Cross referencing that with the manifests and Free French movements they were able to pinpoint the exact day and location by the name on the tank.
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
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Posted: Friday, April 16, 2004 - 06:32 AM UTC
Here's a link to that thread over on Missing Links: http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=47208&messageid=1081459433
Also should note that every photo I have seen of Sherman 105s in France during July/August 1944 have all been M4(105)s, not M4A3(105)s (ala the Tamiya kit). I'm not categorically saying that there were't any M4A3(105)s in France then, but most of the Shermans rolling around France in those days were M4 or M4A1 models.
In case anyone is wondering, converting the Tamiya M4A3(105) to an M4(105) is not impossible, but it is a heck of a lot of work. We're talking major surgery. And there is no such animal as an M4A1(105).
Also should note that every photo I have seen of Sherman 105s in France during July/August 1944 have all been M4(105)s, not M4A3(105)s (ala the Tamiya kit). I'm not categorically saying that there were't any M4A3(105)s in France then, but most of the Shermans rolling around France in those days were M4 or M4A1 models.
In case anyone is wondering, converting the Tamiya M4A3(105) to an M4(105) is not impossible, but it is a heck of a lot of work. We're talking major surgery. And there is no such animal as an M4A1(105).
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