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Armor/AFV: Canadian Armor
Discuss all types of Canadian Armor of all eras.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Kangaroo ram walkaround...
DRAGONWAGON
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: February 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,041 posts
Armorama: 501 posts
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 06:45 AM UTC
Hi gang,

I've placed a new walkaround on my site, this time the topic is an Canadian Kangaroo ram personnel carrier.
It's equipped with the old style M3 bogie trucks.
I didn't know there was such a vehicle so nearby my house, but I found out on a site!!

Enjoy, John.

http://www.dragonwagonscorner.tk/
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 08:08 AM UTC
Thanks for the great pictures ...I guess there is no way to see the inside of the vehicle eh!

Rick
DRAGONWAGON
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: February 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,041 posts
Armorama: 501 posts
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 08:25 AM UTC
Hi Richard,

I'm afraid no pictures of the inside, since it's all closed up!! And in my opinion that's a good choice, since the local youth uses the vehicle as a hang-out spot, as you might have seen on the various pictures.


Sorry, John.
Martinnnn
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 26, 2004
KitMaker: 5,435 posts
Armorama: 2,762 posts
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 10:29 AM UTC
That's the one at the mill right?

I've been gathering Ram images on the web as I wanted to build one, but I don't like much scratchbuilding (as I always screw up) and resin conversion is a little expensive

Nice gallery, that's for sure!
Slug
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: September 02, 2004
KitMaker: 705 posts
Armorama: 505 posts
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 02:15 PM UTC
Hey John, thanks for the pics.
Does any one make a model of this or is the conversion method the only way to go?
This would make a great piece, or the full blown version with turret would be even better.

Bruce
junglejim
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 03:00 PM UTC
Resicast make the Kangaroo and Badger (flame thrower version), and the Ram gun tank has been done also in resin by S-Models of Poland, Verlinden, and 1 or 2 other companies I can't think of right now. Of the Rams, nobody has got the hull or turret shapes right, and the dimensions are questionable . I've been working on the S-Model version on and off for a few years, lots of work.

Jim
FNC1
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: January 17, 2005
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 26 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 03:51 AM UTC
I have both the Verlinden Ram II conversion and the old Kit and Co. The Verlindens errors have been dealt with often, and I agree the dimensions and shape are terrible. The Kit and Co however is not that bad. I havnt built it yet but have done some test fitting, and if a Tamiya M4 hull is used instead of the Grant or Lee, the rear overhang is a lot more accurate. (the Lee/Grant is bigger due to it being a motorized kit). The Kit and Co turret even has screws instead of the bolts on the Verlinden, and the shallow scallops at the rear. If you can find one (it took me about two years to scoop one off ebay) its probably the best starting point.

Cheers
mastertyno
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Porto, Portugal
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 339 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 04:32 AM UTC
viva...

Very nice walkaround and very nice website!!!
yep, sometimes, there's so much cool stuff near us , but we just miss it because weren't paying attention to what's around us!

See yaaa
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 05:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you can find one (it took me about two years to scoop one off ebay) its probably the best starting point.



I have made many posts over on Missing Lynx regarding the various Ram kits available and anyone looking to purchase or do a lot of work on any of them would be well advised to so a search over there for the many posts on the subject. However, just to give a flavour of my opinions, the following was posted on ML .


Rams of many flavours... December 4 2004, 2:15 PM


As my name has been bandied about, I suppose I must reply!

First there was the Lone Star Ram and it was foul in all measures and displeased the gods and lo, it's time was short upon the Earth.

Then there was Mister Verlinden's Ram and it was based upon the Nichimo M4A1 and thus was short, wide and tall, making it a most dumpy looking Ram. Its other inaccuracies were many and varied, taxing the patience and skill of any modeller who put his hand to building one and attempting to achieve the Holy Grail of accuracy. It did build into a moderately good looking Ram if your eyes were mostly closed and the light was poor. It's time was also relatively short upon the Earth, but it had made an impression upon some people.

Those people were from a far off land who travelled by several names. They were known as H&K 35 to some and as Kit and Co. to others and they looked upon the Verlinden Ram with favour. So much favour that they copied the Verlinden Ram almost completely making only cosmetic changes to it's substance and doing no real work to get closer to the Holy Grail. Still, their castings were most fair and the resulting kit still resembled a Ram. Alas for the multinamed company from France, they passed from the ken of man and walk the Earth no longer.

However, the legend of the Verlinden Ram lived on and a company in far off Poland saw the Ram and were entranced by its lines. They also took either a H&K or Verlinden Ram and copied it almost completely, warts and all. They made some attempts to change the shapes of some parts, but, for some unknown reason decided to inflict upon their copy the sheet metal ducts for the wading gear seen only on some Ram OP versions, which their model most definitely was not. In addition, they made the decision to make the conversion into a full kit by including a complete copy of Tamiya's M3 Lower hull and other needed bits and some WE210 track. While their intent was good, the legality was suspect and lo their effort was tainted and false. The lower hull parts are copied directly from Tamiya and include all flaws in the Tamiya Lee, including 6 spoke wheels, bogus idler mounts, a too wide hull that will accept no modern upgrades and an auxiliary turret that needs the side view ports removed. This kit has continued in production for several years and is still available from the land, far away. Although I decry their methods, the castings are still most fair and a somewhat dumpy Ram can be produced with some effort.

Finally the craftsmen ar Resicast did set their hand to the Ram, but have limited themselves to the combat versions so far, producing a Ram Kangaroo and a Ram Badger. While they have based their efforts on the Italeri M4A1, of long standing, their attempt has also fallen short of the mark, although the basic shapes are much more pleasing to the eye. The position of the driver's visor is almost a cubit too far forwards and the turret ring is likewise too far forwards making any version with a turret on that hull appear to be perched over the front bogey. The rear hull contour, so distinctive on Rams (and cast M3A1s for that matter) is woefully incorrect and displeases the gods with its misformed ugliness. My hull also had the cardinal sin of being tapered from front to back needing tapered .030 shims on each side to bring it back to the correct shape. The gods are having mercy upon Resicast and this kit is still available from them, but warnings and forebearance are needed upon the part of the modeller who attempts to make these kits more accurate.

Thus endeth the lesson!

Paul, keeper of the records.



tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 04:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I guess there is no way to see the inside of the vehicle eh!



Not that one, but there are a couple of photos in my second Ram book and I have a few more if needed.

Paul
FNC1
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: January 17, 2005
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 26 posts
Posted: Friday, January 21, 2005 - 04:14 PM UTC
[quote

Those people were from a far off land who travelled by several names. They were known as H&K 35 to some and as Kit and Co. to others and they looked upon the Verlinden Ram with favour. So much favour that they copied the Verlinden Ram almost completely making only cosmetic changes to it's substance and doing no real work to get closer to the Holy Grail. Still, their castings were most fair and the resulting kit still resembled a Ram. Alas for the multinamed company from France, they passed from the ken of man and walk the Earth no longer.

[/quote]


Are you sure that H&K and Kit and Co are the same animal? As you can see in the pictures the dimentions are totally different to the Verlinden Ram, with the length being longer, the shape better, and the divers vision slot not being way forward. Also, I had been told that Kit and Co was Belgian. I really don't know, I'm working on probably 8th hand information.







Cheers
Keith
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2005 - 03:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Are you sure that H&K and Kit and Co are the same animal?


Yes. I have seen the exact same lit boxed under either name.

Quoted Text

As you can see in the pictures the dimentions are totally different to the Verlinden Ram, with the length being longer, the shape better, and the divers vision slot not being way forward.


If you look at the two hulls, the verlinden hull doesn't have the top row of bolts from the differential housing and the Kit & Co hull does. Remeasure the two hulls and they are almost the same. Kit & Co did make some shape changes to the driver's area and to the bulge around the auxilliary turret and, I think added a bit to the rear (say 1-2 mm) but the basics are exactly the same and the result, although the best of the non-Resicast kits, still is too dumpy because of the base kit used.

You can see the other changes that H&K made to the turret as well. The row of bolts on the Verlinden mantlet has been changed to screws and the sharp outlines of the gun rotor bulge have been changed to a more faired-in, cast look as it shuold be. H&K also supplied the commander's hatch ring as a seperate piece that you could affix in any orientation, like the original. So they did make some positive changes and the H&K kit is better to have by far than the Verlinden kit, but the basics are still off.

Quoted Text

Also, I had been told that Kit and Co was Belgian. I really don't know, I'm working on probably 8th hand information.


You may be right. I had been told they were French. Perhaps one name was when they operated in one country and the other name from a second country? Dunno, but it has been known that European garage kit companies move as their owners get transferred or the like in their real life.

As they are both out of business, though, it might be hard to confirm either way.

Paul
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