Hey everyone, my DML Tiger 3 in 1 comes tomorrow so I plan on jumping right into it. Before I do though I need to plan out my build. I intend on depicting an early Tiger that has made it to 44-45, well into the period of late tigers. I have a couple of questions though. Number 1, would such a tiger have been updated in the field and thus for all intents and purposes be a late tiger look a like? Number 2, Say it was not updated, would this Tiger be wearing Zimmirit, and if so what would non-factory applied zimmerit be and look like? Number 3, is it likely that it would hve had an updated camo scheme and not just the panzer grey from the early war?

Thanks in advance.

Ahh, what if... You can't really go wrong with a what if project, but here are some thoughts anyway..
1. German AFV's were routinely upgraded with all the latest updates and mods whenever they where brought in for a refit. Most of these would have been done in factories or fit shops rather than in the field. So your Tiger must have survived without any damage or breakdown serious enough to send it back for a refit.
2 Zimmerit was not routinely applied in the field, so as per above, if the vehicle was not returned, probably not.
3 When Dunkelgelb was ordered to be the new standard base color, it was ordered that all serving front line vehicles where to be painted aswel. In practice this did not happen often, as supply of paint was not sufficient for this purpose. Most Panzergrau vehicles would either be camouflaged with Dunkelgelb ( and sometimes also Green) to save on paint or indeed be knocked out before they could be painted. The likelyhood of a standard Early Tiger, in three tone camo scheme is highly unlikely. But that doesn't mean you can't do it. But consider the Dunkelgelb over Panzergrau (30%/60%) as that would make an attractive and rare model.

Cheers
Henk

Edit,

As for point 1, I have seen photo's from later in the war, where the Feifel Filter housings are still attached to the rear, but without the tubes going to the air intake. Obviously the Feifel system was discontinued on the mid and late Tigers, but the surviving early ones still had the remnants attached, if no longer of any use. Something to keep in mind.

The surviving early Tiger in the pics on this page seems to have zimmerit applied, though it's not too clear. Unfortunately, from your point of view, it has steel wheels.

http://www.tigerbuild.co.uk/main.html

Interessting link Drader, and a case in point as to the minefield that is German Armour. Because they would add new developments to old tanks, some strange vehicles can be seen. The Tiger in your link shows this. The cuppola is the old drum style one , but there are no smoke dischargers on the turret side. The Gun mantlet looks like an early one, but it is difficult to determine if it has zimmerit applied. I would say that the rest of the tank has no zimmerit. The steel wheels might have been replacements, as rubber was in short supply, if available at all, in these last stages of the war. There is no mention of this in the article though.
I think it shows that there is not much that you can't build when it comes to German Armour, as the possibility that it would have been used is there.
Trying to determine if a Pzr IV is a G H or J just from pic's is an equally entertaining problem .

Cheers
Henk

The biggest problem here i think, is that the Dragon initial Tiger is quite different to an early Tiger. Where as there is a case to be made for an Earl yTiger survivng, there were no surviving Initial Tigers by '44.

There was a steel wheeled Tiger that had a Early Tiger turret mounted on a late chassis. This Tiger belonged to "Tiger-Gruppe Fehrmann, and was formed in the spring of '45.

Regards from the Swamp

Hawkeye

I have to agree that no Initial tigers made it to 1945 but as the others have mentioned ,but there were quite a few earlies that were refitted with steel wheels and zimmerit...here are a couple of pictures of F13 ...



Rick

Interesting track sag on that Tiger Richard! Is it sitting in a nasty hole or is it damaged? Doesn't look like it follows the normal line of the roadwheels to me...

I'm very glad you posted those pictures Richard!
And Henk, I'm also very glad with your comment on the Feifel systems still in place!

WHY??
I was following this forum because of my enry for the Panzer!! Campaign.
I'm building a Tiger 1out of an incomplete kit from Tamiya. The model is build out of the Tiger 1 Early, combined with the old resin Verlinden Zimmerit set and the missing parts came from left overs from other modellers (most out of Tamiya's DAK version Tiger Mid).
So, the pictures below showed how it turned out, and I was wondering very much if it was 'authentic': a Tiger 1 Early with Zimmerit on it and with a (disabled) Feifel system still in place..

Combining your two posts, it's obvious this model is not out of the question; IT COULD HAVE BEEN this way!!

(Who's gonna make me really lucky with a picture that proves this?)

What do you think?





Paul

Paul, to lend even more to the combining of the ealry/late debate, why not drop the tubes from the feifel air cleaners that lead into the top deck? Henk mentioned that earlier in his first post. I thounk it would help convey the message. Good job and bashing what you had into something that might just have been! Looking forward to seeing some paint on it soon. "Q"

Paul ...I'd put the lights back on the upper corners of the hull instead ...These little details weren't usually changed in the refits...and it'll make it look more like a refitted tank..
As for the wheels on the tiger I posted ...The tiger was knocked out by a point blank hit from a Comet so I guess it caused quite a bit of damage...but it must be in some kind of hole or something.

Rick

Paul, your Idea for a 'mish mash' Tiger is shaping up nicely. A few good pointers have been offered, Richard (thebear) has a good point with regards to the lights. The central mounted single head light was not an early feature, but this would not have been changed. It would be a nice touch to add the mounting points on the corners of the upper hull, but only mount one off the lights. I've seen a fair few photo's showing Tigers with a missing headlight.
Also the turret. If you want this to be an early turret (which it is, as it has the drum type cupola) it should have the communication hole/hatch on the left side of the turret wall, just before the stowage bin.
And Matthew's suggestion is one I would go with, remove the Feifel hoses, as the would not be used any more. But if you do that, you should replace the airintake part on the enginedeck for the later one, as it's slighttly different. If you do not have one, it is easy to scratch, as it's just a small cover over the intake. I'll try and take a pic ASAP from my Tiger to show it, but I'll have to pop down my LHS tommorow as It's on display there...

Groeten
Henk

paul, keep on going with lots of zimmerit you won't see
anything of the failures that are on it
eric :-) :-)

This is how my 'mish-mash' Tiger 1 turned out
Comments welcome!

Paul