Bill, I'm sorry man, but this is just biggest load of crap yet. If the results you are not getting are caused by the marketing campaign and the name on the label, then I or anybody else can't help you. You need to look past the labels my friend, because color is just color. Pick the one that works best for you and move on. If you don't like how they are trying to sell them, then don't buy em. Like I said--making a mountain out of a mole hill. Rudi says it best... Best, Mike

No Bill, last time, the 'Flame-War' was caused by little more than Ax-Grinding. Everyone uses slogans, every makes claims about their products. I DON'T see Mig as being any different from any other manufacturer. It's a competitive market out there - everyone's marketing HAS to make an impact. I don't cover, in the News Section, a single manufacturer who doesn't make one claim or another about their products. Why should Mig be singled-out?

I guess I didn't see it that way. I have talked to other modelers who feel that MIG's claims (the company, not the man) are sometimes wildly inflated. Hey, I'm in marketing, so I understand you hype things. But make sure you can support those claims. I don't mean to single out Mig, and made a comment that was personal and non-specific ("The 502 Abteilung paints have been somewhat disappointing for me so far."). Mike then used a thread to knit a sweater, inferring much more than I implied. I would be happy to leave it at that, but now we're analyzing the analysis, if you get my meaning. I think the marketing side of the hobby has gotten a bit ugly lately, whether its anonymous bloggers attacking this site for "favoring" one company over another, or the @#$%storm that came up over the MIG airbrushes. But given the high cost of everything in the hobby- kits, paints, AM sets, etc.- it's not unfair to examine the claims manufacturers make about their products. I think MIG products are generally excellent. That doesn't mean I like everything they make. One thing that DOES bother me is the implication from Mike and others that we're being "mean" if we criticize. I have Mig's weathering book, more than half of his pigments, his acrylic resin for making mud, several filters, and yes, some 502 Abteilung oils. I would not purchase his airbrush, but would buy any of his resin kits or conversions, though the Panzer IV muffler was a good addition to a kit, but the commander's cuppola sits unfinished because there are no instructions in it and I can't figure out how to put it together. All in all, that seems to me a pretty good track record, but I expect I'll get a tongue-lashing from someone.

Where/whom can I get the new P-411 & P-412 from? Thanks, Jeff

According to a post on another site announcing these, posted by Michigan Toy Soldier Co, they will have all the new stuff in next week if that helps. http://www.michtoy.com/ Alan

Oh cool, good news! Thanks Alan!

Even I ,(little more than a begginer), have noticed MIG's claims are a bit over the top to say the least. Many of the products are genuinely of the highest quality however.

This hobby, like many others, relies a lot on reviews and word of (virtual) mouth recommendations. The independent opinion of others is undoubtedly one of the best ways of helping you make up your mind about what to buy in the first place, and then if you like it and agree with the opinions of others then you perhaps make repeat purchases. And this extends to techniques, which is of course one of the things that makes this such a good site, as you can learn from others and try out their techniques, as well as showing others the techniques you use or, dare I say, developed, yourself (everyone does things slightly differently no doubt) and some may pick up on those. Maybe one of the problems I and some others have with Mig's marketing is that it seems as if he is attempting to ride roughshod over some of the above. We know there are quite a few examples of hyperbole: "far superior to any other type" "superior to any other" "Only Mig Productions can guarantee you the best results" "This oil colour is essential" "Use only the best quality products when wanting to avoid potential problems while painting and weathering a model. Quality always has a price and ruining your model is much more expensive." "The goal of Mig Productions was to fill a vast empty space in the military modelling world." "The most reliable recourse here at MIG Productions is our inexhaustible imaginations" "the unquestionable pioneer of unique important subjects." "It is no longer any doubt that successful people are the ones whom strive to give quality and prestige to a product. " My real favourite: "This extraordinarily instructive DVD will educate the people about all of the new important innovative techniques associated with this fresh ground-breaking painting style that all modellers, both professional and amateur, are now trying to follow." (that really is a quite extraordinary sentence!!) Actually, it leaves me kind of breathless reading it! I think I might pass out!! So anyway, that's up to him, even if it does seem all just a bit over the top and unnecessarily hyperbolic, and probably is, for some cynical gits like me, a bit counter-productive. I suppose a slight worry is this idea that, because of the somewhat "personal" attention that is paid to criticism or questioning, and the nature of some of the claims made, is that some younger - and I think this is perhaps the point - modellers may feel that unless they follow the recommended techniques and use the products of the Spanish master, that they will be somehow letting themselves down. Trying out using white spirit as a thinner probably isn't going to ruin your model. Grinding your pastels is an option. Artists' oil colours aren't too low-grade for a plastic kit. You can mix your own colours. You can buy perfectly good brushes in your local model shop. You know, it sometimes seems like it is just all a bit too pressurised in a way.

Yes, there's no doubt that Mig are running very agressive marketing campaigns. Name me one company which if it has strong competition, doesn't? Their are a number of companies which do (or will be doing) some of the product lines that Mig do. So, frankly, I can't understand, why, every time Mig Productions release new products, we have to go thru all this? When Adam or Miguel send me the release lists they DON'T include a list of instructions about HOW the News Report is going to read. So, simply put, if you want to get offended by their advertising copy, you have to go to their site. I use their products - not all of them as there are some which I don't have a great need for. They suit me, they are easy to use, they are well-priced and I don't have to buy them from the States or from the Far East. I like them. So, I think that: is over-exaggerating somewhat. Is anyone SO susceptible to marketing? Most people can sort out for themselves what they understand from Advertising - your implication being, thet Mig's Advertising Copy is designed deliberately to confuse? Is this the issue? Marketing? I've personally always learnt to take it or leave it. Maybe you shouldn't get so uptight over it either?