I am looking for a way to make some camo netting. I want to have it rolled up and packed onto a modern vehicle. Can anyone give me an idea on how to do this. It will most likely be used on some desert storm vehicles. Thanks for any help

One possible base for a camo net is women´s pantyhose...
Stretch a piece from all sides and paint a base color on it. After the paint is dry it should´nt stretch any more. It´s a good base to begin with, additional debris is easy to apply. Pantyhose work also for net on soldier´s helmets!

By the way, they were my wife´s nylons, not mine.

Toni

Another method is to use a guaze bandage. I've used it with some pleasing results.
I poured some rubbing alcohol in a small dish, added a couple drops of the desired paint color, mix a bit, and drop the guaze in. Soaks up the color nicely. Remove it and hang dry or blot dry with some paper towels.
If the new netting looks a little fuzzy, I used a bic lighter to rid em. Be very careful if doing this. Make sure the netting is completly dry from the above "dyeing" method. Move the netting very quickly over the flame and viola...no more fuzz.

The gauze method Kencelot explained works well. The only thing I would add is that camo netting on British vehicles during the DS was somewhat different. In this case I'd use the gauze, dip it in the white glue/water mixture and sprinkle some tea leaves on it.. Color it and there you go...

Some people use cheese cloth besides the medical gauze.

Mario M.

Ahhh...cheesecloth! Thanks Mario, I couldn't remember that this morning. Not enough coffee.

HI there!
I also use the same method as Ken and Mario, and you can add paper thin straps along with the tea leaves or even oregano.....
Just my 2 cents!

The methods that were explained work great for 1/35 kits. I tried something new I thought I'd pass along to all. I just got hooked on 1/72 armor and it is a little difficult to get the same results for netting using either the guaze or the pantyhose. I went in a totally different route. In other posts I've described the wonders of rolling putty out thin and makng various items with it. I did the same thing here, but instead of rolling it out, I formed a "blob" close to the size I wanted my netting to be, and then using dental tools textured the life out of it. Just little stabbing motions. After a few hit and miss trys I got it to where it looked really good. The nets I was doing were in the front racks of a Challenger II in DS markings. I'm still working on figuring a way to make netting that is spread out in 1/72 scale that looks convincing, but when I do I'll share my findings with every body. Anybody got a tip for 1/72 netting? Just my input. "Q"

In 1/72 scale use those small gauze squares like the ones that they tape to your arm after drawing blood. They are about 2"x2" and have a fairly fine weave.

I've gotten great results from the gauze used in dental offices. The same stuff they stick in your mouth to soak fluids up or use for pressure. It's a fine weave that is very workable.

WOW, thanks for all the info. it all seems like good ideas. I think I will try out the gause to keep from getting in a fight with my wife over ruining her pantyhose.



Good idea to clearify that with all us clowns here you could have got some intresting coments back.

I will try the pantyhose on helmets in the near future also and see how it goes. I could see that working well in my mind.




I am assuming that you use acrylic paint for this being that is in alcohol, please let me know if this is the case.

thanks again for the fantastic help all.

That thought never crossed our minds Drew. NOT

Hi,

I have a different proposal. I every unit in which I operated, we put the nets back in their covers and poles back in their bags. The nets would snag on everything on the vehicle, trip up personnel moving around the vehicles and grab every tree limb and bush we moved by. Of course this was in places like southeat US and Germany. In places like Saudi Arabia, you can get away moving cross country without packing the nets. In that case all the above recommendations are great. The only thing is scale, which I haven't solved. The weave on modern U.S. nets is only about 1 inch. What is that in 1/35. It also does not include the plastic camo on th nets. Camo nets were a pain in the ass to rig. For a short time in Germany (83-84) all camo nets were removed from the TOE for tank platoons (we weren't to stay in one place long enough to deploy them. That was changed pretty quickly). This is just a thought.

Jeff

Yes Drew, I use acrylics for this method. I use the alcohol because I have lots of it, it's inexpensive, and works great as a thinning agent for the acrylic paints. The gauze sucks the color in like it's starving for it. Just pour a little puddle of the alcohol in a old jar's cap or something similar. Add a drop or two of the paint to the alcohol...a little goes a long way.

Hey all,
In addition or substitution of the gause, you could also use the material used to hold bird seed at weddings & such. Forget the exact name of it, but you can get loads of it for a couple dollars. Comes in rolls or pads. Can find it at craft & hobby stores, along with good ol' Wal-Mart. Good for up to about 1:72 scale, I would say. Probably a bit too small for 1:35 though.

Michael
Historical Miniature Wargamer & Hobbyist

Welcome aboard Ranger74 and Tankfan!

Thanks for the input and other ideas.

Ranger74, I didn't even think of the hassles of using nets on AFVs. Good idea to keep in mind though when building em. I would imagine any draping over the sides would be too realistic..unless of course like you stated, in desert scenes.

Tankfan, where I work, they have plenty of weddings...at least one a week. Anyways, I always gather up all sorts of those fancy frilly lacey things. Some of them are great for models. While others are a little too plastic to conform over a vehicle. You are right though, those little "netty" things they use for holding the seed is pretty good.

COL K] Thanks for the welcome. My answer was mainly for packed up nets, i.e., moving support vehicles or armor away from battle zone. My tank company (1983-84) use draped nets on out gun tubes and the turret tops while at the Hohenfels training area in Germany. The German forests (of course tanks have been running thru Hohenfelssince the 1930s) are not as thick as at say, Fort Polk, LA . The nets we used on our tanks were from the property disposal yard and we cut them to fit. The nets helped break up our outlines. But when we were roadmarching, or our support vehicles moved they put their nets back in the bags. They were really a pain to set up and take down.

Jeff

Wished I had made rank this fast on active duty!!!!

I am mainly asking for desert storm models. I have seen pictures with vehicles with the nets rolled up outside of their packs. this is what I am going to duplicate. I have one more question. Should I put any material into the net. Someone mentioned putting crushed leaves or something in the net. would this be acurate for desert storm? Thanks again for the continue help.

Congrats on the rank Jeff (Ranger74) And welcome to the site Michael (Tankfan)

I ran accorss this method for modern US camo netting...

Search the grocery sotres and raid your wife's sink - you can find a type of pot scrubber that is actually a sponge surounded by a heavy nylon woven, semi-twisted material that serves as the abrasive part for scrubbing pots.

The twisted, woven nylon is perfect to simulate the curvy, droopy look of a modern camo net. Cut up the sponge and remove the outter netting, roll up a small piece, shoot a bunch of super glue into it and squish it to the model. You can get good, scale shapes that give it the look of wieght and "limpness".

You can paint the two-tone color by painting and overall green and then dry brushing the second color.

Don't forget to add all those pesky aluminum poles and odd looking support pieces stowed somewhere as well. Check out photos or military manuals for the details.

I use a 4x4 gauze pad soaked in a cup of Loose Leaf Tea. Ensure you let the tea sit in the cup until it is too strong to drink, meaning real dark, coffe works too but you have no leaves to use later. Remove the gauze after about an hour or two and spread out to dry on wax paper. Spread tea leaves out on a cookie sheet (get your own not your wife's) and place in warm oven to dry. After the gauze is dry, spray with diluted white glue and sprinkle tea leaves on. You can add parsley or oregano leaves for a multi-color effect. The tea leaves turn brown and some types even turn black. Roll or fold to size and tie or wrap with tape straps. HTH P.S. or try pipe tobacco for scrim too!

Net Pole Bags, Bruce J. I've only seen them in the Tamiya and Academy M60 kits and in a couple of Resin accessory sets.
Here is some tid bit info for you Drew and other guys. Ok other service guys (ROB), make sure I am correct.
In a camo net bag, there are 2 pices of net to each bag. One piece is in the shape of a dimond and the other piece is in the shape of a hexagon. There is actually a field manual for this. Depending on the vehicle, there is a certain amount of hex's and dimonds that you use to cover the vehicle. Rob or the other tankers would probably know how many a tank would use to be covered. A HUMMER uses a hex and a dimond. Know, its hard to remmeber, but I think there where 12 poll pieces, 16 stakes and 4 spreaders. Spreaders where a three piece that, well spread open and was attached at the end of the polls to hold up the net. Im not sure about the height of the poles, but I'm 5'8" and a pole stood up to about my chin.
OK ROB, HELP ME OUT HERE!!!!!!!! LOL!!!

I have that TM, we usually carried 3 set on the tank when in Germany. Two were pre-configured to cover the tank and wrapped up in one bag (very tight fit). The other was for the 4-man hex tent that we never used. Our old M60A3TTSs looked like gypsy wagons.

The odd shaped spreaders were usually referred to as paddles, but spreaders was the official term. Aluminum poles were better than the fiberglass ones for durability (fiberglass ones could snap under high winds) but the aluminum ones were prone to denting then they wouldn't fit into one another.

I found the field manual on camouflage, FM 20-3 Camouflage. In appendix B, it gives the formula for how many sets of netting a particular vehicle requires. For some reason, it just doesn't give a table saying that an M2 requires 2 sets (referred to as "modules"), and M1 2 sets, etc. There is a table giving vehicle dimensions in height, width and length and then you plug these values into two different formulas:
A=2h + w + 5ft.
B=2h + L + 5ft.

Once you determine the value for both A and B, you use another chart to determine how many modules you will need with the A value being on the Y axis and the B value being the X axis. Interesting concept.

BTW, the formula for the M1is:
A=2(10) + 12 + 5=37
B=2(10) + 28 + 5=53
the chart shows that 2 modules are needed for a vehicle this size, which is what we carried for the tank itself.

Pete,
Rob's right on the money about the poles and nets. There are 2 nets per bag like you said, 1 diamond and 1 hex. Whe I was a young private I worked in a Brigade S2 shop. We carried our net configuration all pre-assembled on our track with the other shop vehicles carrying theirs on their vehicles. All total there was close to 20 hex's and and roughly 15-20 diamonds in this whole thing. Needless to say it was a monster. My current setup for my Bradley is 2 hex and 2 diamonds, although I have yet to use them as we are never in one spot long enough to do so. Scouts aren't supossed to be in place that long anyway. If we are then we dismount and go to ground ops and break out the ghillie suits. Anyway I'm starting to ramble. HTH "Q"

Andrew,
After reading your original post I figured it would probably be a good idea to answer in regards to what you wanted to know in the first place.... lol For the net bags I'd again use the putty. Roll it out pretty thin using talc powder or baby powder to prevent sicking. Once rolled out cut it in the shape of a thick cross "+" even top and bottom and side to side or as close as you can get it. Either use a blob of putty or some wadded up tissue and placein the center of the cross. Fold sides in first then top and bottom as this is how the real one are done. Use your choice of material for straps, (I prefer copper) and snug these down to achieve the creases in the bag. Add "D" shaped buckles.
For the pole bags, cut some plastic or brass rod to about 5' (scale height) you'll need 12 of them but you could always fake the funk. Roll some more putty out and cut to the desired length, roughly a little longer than the poles. Once cut out, lay the poles center mass of the putty and wrap the sides to meet. Pinch one end down, this being the opening of the bag and let dry. Once this is hardened, add the bottom of the bag with some putty and trim the excess away. You can add the carrying strap with more rolled out putty or with a strip of lead foil, copper, what ever you want. There is an eyelet that the carrying strap clips through at the bag opening, that can be made from some small diameter wire. If some one can tell me how to post pictures I could scan them and post them for all to see. These bags are about the simplest things to construct. I plan on making some and then casting a few dozen to add for filler items on my stuff. Anyway....hope this helps you out. "Q"