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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
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What-if : 5.0cm Pak 38 on a Stuart ?
macbeth
Joined: June 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 09:40 PM UTC
IIRC the Yugoslav Partisan forces adapted a M3A3 to carry a 7.5cm PaK 40.

From what I can gather the recoil must have been quite an experience !

Feasible to mount a 5.0cm Pak 38 on a Stuart ?

I take it that the gun has to be mounted as on the Yugoslav Pak 40 combination.

With the limited Stuart interior space excluding the possibility of mounting the Pak 38 internally (as in the StuG).

Any comments - it's great to be back

CaptainA
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Indiana, United States
Joined: May 14, 2007
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Posted: Friday, June 22, 2007 - 12:10 AM UTC
That would be interesting to see. Do you have any pictures?
iowacentral
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Joined: April 15, 2007
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Posted: Friday, June 22, 2007 - 09:36 AM UTC
I saw photos of someone who had done just this. The gun was mounted fixed on a small superstructure. If I find it again, I'll try to remember where.
Scott
desertfox42
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Joined: September 05, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 08:07 AM UTC
wow
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 08:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

IIRC the Yugoslav Partisan forces adapted a M3A3 to carry a 7.5cm PaK 40.


According to S. Zaloga, it was the Yugoslav 1st Tank Brigade who did this. They were organised by the British in Italy and sent to help the partisans. The Brigadeīs M3A3s didnīt have enough firepower to tackle the larger German tanks, so they removed the turrets of "3" M3A3s and mounted captured 75mm Pak 40s on them.
He has a model of this in the Osprey modelling manual for the M3/M5 Stuart light tank (#4). He has a simple frame added, crossing the turret ring of the M3, and then mounted the Italeri Pak 40, and made some shield around it.

Quoted Text

Feasible to mount a 5.0cm Pak 38 on a Stuart ?


Must be, as it was a smaller calibre. If it was ever done ... I couldnīt say.
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 08:36 AM UTC
There is one image of Zalogaīs finished version on Missing links.

Click here

tankmodeler
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
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Posted: Monday, June 25, 2007 - 06:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

He has a model of this in the Osprey modelling manual for the M3/M5 Stuart light tank (#4). He has a simple frame added, crossing the turret ring of the M3, and then mounted the Italeri Pak 40, and made some shield around it.


I had a chat with Steve abuot this one a couple years ago at an AMPS convention. His model has the gun carriage's axle going approximately across the centre of the turret ring. Unfortunately it's impossible to service the piece properly with that layout. the gunners & loaders have to actually stand/crouch on the roof of the fighting compertment. If the Yugoslav (or British) depots had the equipment (welders & torches) to cut and weld the armour for the side plates, I feel strongly that they would have removed the bulk of the roof of the fighting compartment aft of the turret ring leaving a generous space to work the 7.5cm gun. It's just my thoughts and Steve thought it was reasonable, but as no-one has any photos of the insides of these beasts, it's all conjecture.

Still, if I was building one (or doing a 5.0cm what if) I'd remove the top of the hull roof in line with the forward edge of the turret ring, run a structural section ("I" of "C" section) across the opening and down to the floor of the vehicle and then mount the gun to the structural frame. Add the side shields per Steve's model and place the ready rounds down in the hull (Steves are on the inside of the side walls, a most exposed location, to be sure). There would be a reasonable amount of room to man the gun and some room, probably the second driver's position, to store ammo, probably in the shipping containers as opposed to fabricated bins. That combination would make the entire assembly look a lot more reasonable and feasable. At least to my engineer's mind. :-)

Just a few thoughts.

Paul
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