Hi folks,

the next (ok. maybe the next after the next;)) project on my workbench will be techmods T-50. So I've got to questions about this tiny tank:

1) Is there any evidence (photo?), that shows the additional armour fitted in soviet service? Recently I read, this was not added by the finns on captured tanks, but by the soviet themselves...

2) On the cover of the "frontline" (at least I guess it was) there was a side drawing with the pre-war 3tone cammo. Is there any evidence on that?

Thanks for any help!

Volker

I have searched a long time to find a photo of an up-armored one in Red Army service and haven't found it - but there aren't a lot of photos of T-50s anyway, since only 60 or so were made.

I am convinced the add-on armor is Soviet, however. It is very close in style to the add-on turret armor used on very late T-26 Model 1939s. The bolt style looks the same to me. The Finns occasionally added armor to their Soviet and German vehicles but never in that style on any other vehicle. So it's my opinion that it is a Soviet modification.

Now that I have gone on record, someone will prove the Finns did it !

Can't help you on the color question, all I can say is, two and three color schemes were not rare on pre-war Soviet tanks.

Regards

Danny Egan
President
AMPS

Here's a walk-around of a Finnish-operated vehicle, but unfortunately I'm not familiar with T-50 so I can't comment on the add-on armor.
http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps183001/ps183001.html

The applique armor on the T.50 was a Russian application. These tanks were used primarily around Leningrad. This is a good reference:
http://www.squadron.com/NoStock.asp?item=CBA3163
I found very little information on this vehicle. Recently I finished one in Russian markings, the tracks were the hardest part .
These vehicles were painted on the Rusian green and may have whitewash applied. They were rushed to the front and many didn't receive much in other markings.

Mike T.

Mike, you seem very sure of this - what are you basing your conclusion on? I suspect you're right but I can't prove it.

Danny
That book I listed has been the best reference I could find, as well as a scattering of information on the internet. The additional armor was to increase its ability in combat. Even without the extra armor because of the chassis angles its armor was rated as good or better than the T-34. The downfall to the tank was its complex design and an unproven engine that was not fully developed. It took longer to produce a T-50 than a T-34. If I remember correctly only two factories produced them and these switched off to the simpler T-60 and the T-34 soon afterwards. Pictures of it are limited.

There is a story that one even destroyed a Tiger! This was a side shot from close range. The Finns captured their T-50 near Leningrad.

Here is a link to pictures of mine that I posted on the FSM forums.
http://cs.finescale.com/forums/799690/ShowPost.aspx

Mike T.

Hi @all,

thx for your comments. Unfortunatly I knew the sources you stated before and they don't pull me out of my dilemna

All the (historical) pics I know, do show tanks in soviet service without add on armour. The only ones with add on armour show tanks captured by the finns (that were modified in other ways, too).

So, I'll stay on the dry site and will build mine without this feature and in plain green...

And in fact, the tracks are pure horror After doing a certain length I've got to rest by building parts of another kit, just to not loose patience.

Thx again

Volker

Volkers,
The add on armor was only on a FEW tanks, and was similar to the armor kits given to KV's, T-28's and T-26's. This was NOT a Finnish add-on. It was on the vehicle when the Finns captured it near Petrozavodsk in late 1941. The tanks receiving the add-on armor kits were late series vehicles. We are also talking about a vehicle that was produced in very small numbers, only 69 vehicles. It is lucky that two of these vehicles have survived and one happens to be the uparmored variant.
Remember also that the Finns captured just a single vehicle and they used it till 1954.
I do have to agree with you on the tracks, they were a terror and there is no aftermark sets available.

One of the best places to ask your question is the Finnish armor museum at :

http://www.panssarikilta.fi/Museo/kehys-e.html

or the Kubinka Museum near Moscow.

Mike T.

Hi Mike,

this tiny little tank is an interesting story. And a modern tank for its time.
I think I'll adress those points to the parola-museum. On Russian-Battlefield there is stated, that "SOME were captured by the Finns and used till the end of war". Hmm...

Back in 2001, when I bought the kit, I printed the chapter of RKKA-CA about T-50, but in between the side seems to have disappeared. They featured pics of the Kubinka one with white 311 as turret number and even interieur-pics!

Best wishes

Volker

Volker;
I too have always had an interest in this little tank. It looks like a scale down KV with certain elements of the T-34 as well. If it had lived up to its potential it would have beena fine vehicle. Although cramped, not unlike alot of other Russian vehicles, it had a 3 man turret which is a better arrangement than the one man turret on the T-60 and T-70. Many of its attributes were designed considering the Pz III and it had the potential for upgrading. The turret ring for example was quite large and could adopt future improvemnets without a problem.
Maybe the finns captured more than one, but I don't think they were able to operate more then the one. Capturing and using operationally are two different things. My knowledge of Finnish armor operations are limited, but I haven't seen other photos than for this one vehicle. The other vehicles could have been kept as a source of spare parts.

Good luck with the kit, if it wasn't for the tracks it would have been a real fun build.

Mike T.