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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
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Unidentified armoured car...
Andronicus
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 11:36 PM UTC
Can anyone identify this a/c? The hull mounted mg looks an unusual addition to me somehow....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/04/a2270404.shtml
mark197205
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 11:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Can anyone identify this a/c? The hull mounted mg looks an unusual addition to me somehow....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/04/a2270404.shtml


Hey there, its a Staghound, I believe it was an American design that we got some of. If you read down the narrative on that page it does actually say Staghound too.
Andronicus
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Posted: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 11:57 PM UTC
Silly me! I was just browsing through the site ---bags of images there. And as they're all informal you get a different insight into how these vehicles really looked..


Cheers!


A
Removed by original poster on 07/04/07 - 19:00:24 (GMT).
tankmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 06:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The hull mounted mg looks an unusual addition to me somehow....

As was stated, It's a Staghound Mk I, also known in the US as the Armored Car, T17E1. Several thousand were made for the UK and parcelled out to all of the Commonwealth forces fighting in Italy and NW Europe. They came in 4 distinctive versions: The Mk I, shown; the Staghound AA with a twin .50 cal Frazier Nash turret; the Mk II which didn't see service (I think) but was fitted with the same turret as the M8 HMC and the Staghound Mk III which had a Crusader turret fitted with the 6 pdr replaced by the Brit 75mm (as in the Churchill & Cromwell).

Some crews disliked them because they were quite big and heavy.
Some crews loved them because they were quite big and heavy.

Just goes to show, you can't please everyone. :-)
Hodson
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 09:47 AM UTC
Paul,

I remember reading that the Staghound with the M8 turret was used in Italy but the American howitzer was replaced by a British howitzer. I think I read that the New Zealanders used it. What a cool looking model that would make, an open-turreted Staghound.

http://www.staghounds.org.uk/production.aspx http://put.url.here
Hodson
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 09:48 AM UTC
Here's the link


http://put.url.http://www.staghounds.org.uk/production.aspx
TacFireGuru
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 10:08 AM UTC
The link:

http://www.staghounds.org.uk/production.aspx

Mike
Andronicus
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 10:50 AM UTC
Cheers for the replies---it looks much more like the UK built Humber and Daimler a/cs doesn't it. More so than the Greyhound which was the only US a/c I was familliar with.

Why did we never produce a 1/2 track I wonder......does anyone know?


A
ukgeoff
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 11:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Why did we never produce a 1/2 track I wonder......does anyone know?


We did, at least in prototype form and unarmoured. Two were Maultier style vehicles based on the Bedford QL and fitted with Bren Carrier components, the other on the Matador with Valentine components. Bedford also built portotypes based on the German SdKfz 7 design.
mark197205
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Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 12:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Why did we never produce a 1/2 track I wonder......does anyone know?


We did, at least in prototype form and unarmoured. Two were Maultier style vehicles based on the Bedford QL and fitted with Bren Carrier components, the other on the Matador with Valentine components. Bedford also built portotypes based on the German SdKfz 7 design.


Now that I never knew....
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Friday, July 06, 2007 - 08:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I remember reading that the Staghound with the M8 turret was used in Italy but the American howitzer was replaced by a British howitzer. .

Unfortunately, I think you've misread that blurb. If you re-read, you'll find that the Mk II never went to production and tha the Kiwis replaced the regular 37mm in Staghond Mk Is with the British 3" howitzer. That means that turret was the same as the regular Mk I and just the gun and mantlet changed. The Brit 3" Howitzer was really more of a breech loaded mortar as opposed to a full-up howitzer. The muzzle velocity was really low and it was never meant for much in the way of indirect fire, just for lobbing HE & Smoke at visible targets to help the assault. Better than the 37mm, to be sure, but the American 75mm Pack Howitzer (in the Mk II turret), was a much better and more versitile piece.


Quoted Text

I think I read that the New Zealanders used it. What a cool looking model that would make, an open-turreted Staghound.

And, as soon as the Bronco Stag hits the streets, I'm sure you'll start to see them pop up at shows. I'll probably build one eventually.

Paul
Delbert
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Posted: Friday, July 06, 2007 - 08:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Paul,

I remember reading that the Staghound with the M8 turret was used in Italy but the American howitzer was replaced by a British howitzer.


hiya's

According to Squadron's U.S. armored cars in action book only one prototype T17E3 staghound which used the turret from the M8 Howitzer was built before the project was termanated in Dec 1943.

Also according to my reference books there was one final British conversion, the Staghound Command Vehicle. They had the turret removed and additional radio's fitted and map tables, This modification was carried out at the field level so the degree of modification varried.

The T17E1 Armored Car was also designated the M6 but since the vehicle did not see service in the U.S. Army this was almost never used. Basicly they all went to the British and other commonwealth units in Europe.
tankmodeler
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 05:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Also according to my reference books there was one final British conversion, the Staghound Command Vehicle. They had the turret removed and additional radio's fitted and map tables, This modification was carried out at the field level so the degree of modification varried.

While certainly a conversion from a standard Staghound, these command cars shouldn't be seen as an official variant . They were made individually for commanding generals and there probably weren't more than 3 or 4 ever made. They weren't standardised and would have been made in the local divisioinal shops.


Quoted Text

The T17E1 Armored Car was also designated the M6 but since the vehicle did not see service in the U.S. Army this was almost never used. Basicly they all went to the British and other commonwealth units in Europe.

The M6 designation was never official although that's what it would ahve been. The dataplates on the inside of each Staghound apparently says M6 and not T17E1, but they were never officially standardised, so the designation was never correct. The US Army didn't want the design not really having a percieved need for an armoured car. All production was for the British Army, whereby they then ended up on Commonwealth formations.

Paul
stooga
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 07:38 PM UTC
Here's a great image of a Stag with the NZ Div Cav in Italy. I think it would make an excellent diorama with all those good looking Kiwis!

http://kiwisinarmour.hobbyvista.com/images/dcit-1s.jpg
Hodson
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Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 05:45 AM UTC
Paul,

Thanks for the correction regarding the howitzer mod. for commonwealth staghounds. I'll look for photos.

Ted
Gill-oh-no
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Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 06:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Paul,

Thanks for the correction regarding the howitzer mod. for commonwealth staghounds. I'll look for photos.

Ted

There are several in this book, for instance
http://www.jadarhobby.waw.pl/progres-acg02-zealand-division-vol2-book-p-13815.html
Progres ACG02 - 2nd New Zealand Division vol.2 (book)
tankmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 01:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Progres ACG02 - 2nd New Zealand Division vol.2 (book)

And a bloody excellent book it is, too. The first volume is just as good. Great photos and great modelling possibilities.

Find it and buy it, you won't be sorry.
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