_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M1 Abrams with MERDC camouflage
emroglan
Visit this Community
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: December 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,163 posts
Armorama: 842 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 08:23 AM UTC
Greetings everyone,

I am currently building the old Tamiya M1 Abrams kit (#35124). I was planning to paint it in NATO camouflage, but changed my mind to try my hand in something different, I want to apply USA-West Germany pattern MERDC camouflage.

I have a couple problems with this. First, I know that this sort of camouflage uses definite patterns. I know about the "Pick 4 from these 12 colors" story, but I only have a vague idea about how it was applied to the M1 Abrams. Furthermore, I am in the dark about the colors to be used, I need the color matches for either Humbrol or Model Master enamel paints. A fellow local modeller remarked that the Tamiya instructions were way off for the painting, so I can't trust the instructions much (I don't know if his remark is accurate though).

Searching through the net, all I came up with was zillions of M1 Abrams photos in sand color and a few NATO camouflaged M1 photos from Germany. I would really appreciate any help whether they be pictures, color references (in Humbrol or Modelmaster would be cool) or how to apply the pattern.

Finally, no I definitely don't want to paint my Abrams in Sand or NATO, because I have 2 other Abrams tanks in my stash reserved for those colors, so please don't suggest me to take the easy way

Thanks in advance!
2CAVTrooper
Visit this Community
Alabama, United States
Joined: October 21, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 08:46 AM UTC
I've read somewhere that the M1's sent to Germany were either in the overall Forest Green or had the Winter Verdant scheme. Some may have even had the Summer Verdant scheme that substituted the field drab for a light green. The winter scheme is what's shown on the box art IIRC

The following are the color numbers for Model Master

Forest Green 1710
Field Drab 1702
Sand 1704
Black 1749
Light Green 1715

I'll see if I can find a photo or two that shows the scheme on the M1





bcm235
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: August 21, 2005
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 10:14 AM UTC
I've thought about doing a MERDC Abrams as well, but using an M1A1 since I don't have the original M1 tank. I know it's not realistic, but I like the camo pattern.

Anyway, I have a 1/72 Hasegawa M1 and it has the MERDC pattern and colors. However, the colors are in Gunze. Maybe you can find a color matching site (I saw one several months ago, but do not remember the web address).

Here is what the Hasegawa instructions call out for.

FS34079: H309 (Dark Green)
H12: (Flat Black)
H72: (Dark Earth)
H80 (70%) + H58 (30%): (Khaki Green + Interior Green)

I think the above may be the "Summer Verdant" colors, but am not too sure.

I personally prefer to do the "Winter Verdant" pattern, but don't know what Tamiya colors to use except for Black and White. Can you let me know from the instructions on your Abrams kit what Tamiya colors to use?

I had the original Tamiya M1 about twenty years ago. This was when I moved from just gluing models together to actually painting them. Unfortunately, I hadn't discovered putty, masking, or airbrushing yet, so I did a poor job at the "Yukon Jack" camo scheme (Green and White). I ended up throwing the whole thing away. Always regretted that.

As I recall, the camo pattern for the right side of the vehicle on the Tamiya instructions is missing. Do you need the pattern for that side? The Hasegawa instructions have all sides covered.
emroglan
Visit this Community
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: December 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,163 posts
Armorama: 842 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 08:42 PM UTC
I think what I tried to imply by US-West Germany is actually the winter Verdant. Tamiya's instructions call them "Continental US- West Germany" and "Winter Camouflage" (where one of the colors is switched with white) actually. There is no pattern given for the mentioned "Winter Camouflage", but Tamiya provided "Yukon Jack" decals for one such vehicle.

Thanks for the info Gary, then I will actually use the instructions for the camouflage pattern and go with the winter verdant ( Forest Green, Field Drab, Sand and Black). One small problem remains, the drawings don't show the right side of the vehicle.

Bill, I would greatly appreciate the Hasegawa instructions at this point.

I found this site as for color references:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/afv/merdc.html
bankmannl
Visit this Community
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 12:20 AM UTC
Dear Bill,

If you're sending those Hasagewa instructions to Emre perhaps you would be so kind also to send to me.
I'm still looking for some good painting instructions, because I would like to convert a M-1a1 back to the M-1 basic.
Email: [email protected]

Thanks in advance,

Gé Hovens
emroglan
Visit this Community
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: December 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,163 posts
Armorama: 842 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 09:42 AM UTC
Nope, it is not (how I wish it was).

The box has the Yukon Jack drawing on one side (again only left side, no right) and yes on the other side there's an Abrams photo showing the right side... but congratulations Tamiya, that one's fully olive drab, one of the initial ones.

So the box art is out of question. I need some decent photos, drawings or anything for the right side, please please please...
bcm235
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: August 21, 2005
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 02:37 PM UTC
What is your email address?
bcm235
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: August 21, 2005
KitMaker: 34 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 02:41 PM UTC
Hi Ge Hoven,

I sent the instructions to your email address. Sorry for the big file (~5MB). Depending on how you get it, the picture of the right side will be too big or small. If too small, just blow it up and you'll see the details.

-Bill
gcdavidson
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
Armorama: 1,563 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 04:35 PM UTC
At least one of the XM-1's was painted in the 3 color desert cam of tan/brown/black
bankmannl
Visit this Community
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 12:56 AM UTC
Hi Bill,

Thanks for sending the info on the MERDC scheme for the M-1.

All well recieved !!!

Gé Hovens
Removed by original poster on 07/13/07 - 23:24:11 (GMT).
2CAVTrooper
Visit this Community
Alabama, United States
Joined: October 21, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 04:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I want to apply USA-West Germany pattern MERDC camouflage.



No such thing.


Quoted Text

A fellow local modeller remarked that the Tamiya instructions were way off for the painting, so I can't trust the instructions much (I don't know if his remark is accurate though).



Actully the instuctions for that kit are very good for the MERDC pattern for the M1, but screwy for the colors called for.



Quoted Text

I've read somewhere that the M1's sent to Germany were either in the overall Forest Green or had the Winter Verdant scheme. Some may have even had the Summer Verdant scheme that substituted the field drab for a light green.



All the ones that went to Germany were Forest Green. The first ones fielded were at Ft. Hood and they were in the Winter Verdant: Forest Green, Field Drab, Sand, and Black. There were some at the Armor school at Ft. Knox that were Forest Green, Dark Green, and had Black squiggles. The ones at Knox were M1IP's as far as I know.



Yeah I meant to say that they were shipped in the overall forest green, and the scheme if applied would have been the winter verdant

The ones at Knox were indeed IP's I know 1/12 CAV was there at the time and had them in the scheme you mentioned.
2CAVTrooper
Visit this Community
Alabama, United States
Joined: October 21, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 05:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

At least one of the XM-1's was painted in the 3 color desert cam of tan/brown/black



An XM-1 or an M1A1?

In the Concord Publications book on the M1A1/A2, on the bottom right of page 7 and then from the bottom of page 29 through page 33 are photos of M1A1's in a desert based 3 tone scheme
crockett
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: February 04, 2005
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 05:15 PM UTC
I was part of the Chrysler Defense team that helped field the first M1's. All M1 variants were shipped in Forest Green well into the IPM1 production run. This was due to problems at LATP with the "automated" robot paint system. Anyway, here is a picture of 2/64 getting ready for the first Battalion size field problem...as you can see...all Forest Green. Cammo was applied at Battalion Maint. level in Germany , according to unit standards at that time:





Before my employment with Chrysler Defense (later GD), I was assigned as tank commander on PV5, one of 14 PV XM1's constructed in 1976-77. All XM1's had cammo schemes applied, although they are barely discernable in these photos, due to extreme wear ....This is me and my mount - PV5...If you look at the front skirt(s) you can pick out the familiar pattern applied at the time:



Hope this information helps. It would be CORRECT to depict an XM1 in cammo, but, note the differences in the rear blow off panels and CWS that was exclusive to prototype tanks, and NOT the production M1.

Here is a pic of our field crew just prior to leaving Lima for Ft. Hood to help 2/64 ready the new M1's for service. (That's me on the right, the "big" guy). The tanks in the background are part of the first 110 vehicles built at the Lima facility:



Here is a nice frontal shot of PV 5 running the "bottoms" at Ft Knox, (Carpenter Test Area) circa 1978...


regards,
Steve

gcdavidson
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
Armorama: 1,563 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 05:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text



An XM-1 or an M1A1?



XM-1. The photo is circa 1980.
 _GOTOTOP