I'm wondering if I saw the Video correctly on a Desert Storm re-run correctly........ A M577 with a Dozer blade??? Is this a "Normal" thing ???? or was I Hallucinating?????????????? #:-) #:-)

Rob...... Anybody.......... Was I seeing things?????????

Well Matt,

I don't think that it would be impossible. There is a dozer set-up available for the M-113, but to have this rig on a M-577 would certainly be a rarity.

It is possible, the Dozer kit would/could be used...

..why? Maybe a grunt officer wanted a "real" latrine dug, or, on a serious note, there was real concern over Iraqi Artillery before the start of the war, and the vehicle in question wanted to be able to dig in ASAP. Being a M577, it would be distinct fromthe get-go, and diggin it in would be a relief, lower its profile quickly. I don't know...lots of crazy officers in the Army. #:-)

It wasn't a US vehicle. I've never seen a US M113 (or any variant) with a dozer let alone an M577 and I started my military career as a combat engineer. Only time I've ever seen that type of thing on an M113 were photos in reference books like Osprey or Squadron Signal.

I'd veture a guess that you saw an M9 Armored Combat Earthmover (ACE). It looks like an APC with a bulldozer blade.

Hey Sabot, no shot on you anyhow.

and what is with all these officers I know..." I started out in the Engineers..." Is that the officer penal battalion or something?

No, I was not a Officer, I was a Non-com. Knew far too many officers from my college days, couldn't afford the Labotomy scar! On a serious note, far too many of my friends are now in harms way.

As for the M113, I have spoken to a old NCO buddy of mine who got his 20 finished in 1997. He said that he had seen a single M113 toted around Camp RIpley in MN WAAAAAYYYY back when he was a engineer NCO (See what I mean about those engineers). He said they never used them and he never saw another one. He figured that the setup for the M113 was too light for much of any good use. His recollection anyhow.

I only know this as I had pickedup the Verlinden conversion years ago and wanted to know if it was legit as well. I was told, but have not confirmed, that the whole concept popped up in Vietnam, although I do not know when/if the dozer was fielded.

Also, Camp Ripley gets alot of use by British, Swedish, Norwegien, and Belgian troops (the 34th ID, MNANG has a Norway mission as well as being one of the premier winter weather training sites.) so maybe the dozer blade was for foreign sales after all, since my friend did not get to "test" the vehicle.

On a side note, I think Camp Ripley gets almost allthe wierd stuff, I think for cold weather evaluation. I have not seen/heard fo the Striker getting there yet, but I am sure with time...

ok, now that the book is done with...

No, my home town National Guard unit was D Co., 104th Engineers, 50th Armored Division. The company was equipped with the usual combat engineer junk like JD410 backhoes, D7 bulldozers, M113A3s, 5 ton dump trucks, a bucket loader, combat engineer vehicles (my MOS) and AVLBs. I went to basic training and AIT at Ft. Leonard Wood, MO and was discharged as a sergeant (E5) and and commissioned as a regular army armor 2LT the next day. Spent almost four years in the Guard as an enlisted combat engineer and combined with my current 15+ years active army officer time, I will reach 20 years of service this summer.

There tends to be a lot of engineers Guard units in a state. The reason for this is obvious, whenever there is the need to "Call out the Guard", it tends to be for disaster relief, snow storm, flood control, etc. Best type of unit to handle these types of emergencies is an engineer unit. Plus, they can be used as infantrymen during riots.

There is, as Kevin states, a dozer kit available for the M113 and I bet Canada and maybe Austraila uses/used it sometime since the M113 came into being. I know we tested it, as your friend states, "way back." Just as my first sentence states, "It wasn't a US vehicle."

I know from "dozer tanks" in a combat battalion. One per company, but they were hydraulic nighmares always busting hoses and such. 577's were command tracks carrying around staff pukes--well that's what we called them before I became one...

Just a speculation Matt: could they be Italian. I've seen various M113s and derivatives(VCC1 and VCC2) in service with "Carabinieri" that are our military police. They mainly had them (in the number of two per battaillon) with the purpose of removing light barricades in case of riots. What I don't know is if they brougth them down to Middle East during the first Gulf War. I know for sure that Carabinieri were there to act as MP at the airfield where our Tornados where deployed. I've got a photocopy of a picture portraiting the dozer mounted on one of Carabinieri, the quality is poor, but if you're interested in I can manage to find a better one end post it.
Ciao

It wasn't a M9 ACE. I very well could have been seeing things....... But it looked like a M577. or a M113 or M728 could have been hidden behind it. Might make a good "concept" AFV though.......

During my tours in Vietnam ( with the 25 Inf Div) I never saw any M113 variant with a dozer blade on them. I did see a couple of M-60's with a blade.

Is it at all possible that you saw a FV180 Combat Engineering Tractor (CET) from the British Army?

Not Australian - some of our 'Fitter' M113s might have had small stabilization blades fitted under the front hull but would be a local mod only - Israeli perhaps?

[quote]


Hi Rob
You are right that Canada uses them. all of our section M133A2s have them. these vehicles are going though an MTVL upgrade. They have a big hydraulic tank in them so I can't see one being put on an M577.