I am looking for a little bit of help, and I hope that those on this forum can lend a hand. Anyway, way back in 1990 I had the good fortune to be the Heavy Girls platoon commander in 3rd Bn 3rd Mar during operations Desert Shield and Storm. Now that I've got a couple of builds under my belt, I would like to rekindle old memories by building an M1043/44 HMMWV. I hope that you guys could lend me a hand with some information:
1. Would I be correct in guessing that the Tamiya M1025 is the best starting point?
2. What etch detail sets would you recommend? Maybe the Lionroar LE35072 or something else?
3. As I need to build the M1043, I would need the supplemental armor for the vehicle. Who makes this conversion?
4. I guess I also need some help with my memory. My recollection is that our vehicles had the deep wading kit installed. However, I could be confounding my recollection of our Hawaii Hummers with those that we had in the Gulf. So, does anyone know if the the HMMWVs that came off the Martime Preposition Ships had the wading kits installed? If they did, who makes this conversion for the M1025 (or is it included with whatever kit you recommend in question 1.)?
5. I want to build with the M2 mounted and the Mk 19 stowed. Does the kit recommended in 1. come with reasonable facsimiles of both weapons or should I investigate aftermarket weapons? Presumably a PE detail kit recommended in 2. would have sufficient interior detail to model the hatch open and the Mk 19 properly stowed? How about ammo cans for the both weapons in the cargo area?
6. There are probably other questions that I failed to ask. If there is anything more that I should know to build a faithful representation of an M1043/44 that rolled off the MPS Squadron 3 ships for Desert Shield, please let me know.
I'm sorry for the laundry list of questions (though I was helpful enough to number them for your convenience ), however this is a project that I would really like to tackle and do right. If anyone could answer even some of the questions I would be very grateful.
Best,
Dave
Hosted by Darren Baker
Reminiscing - Desert Shield/Storm HMMWV Help,
djohannsen
Joined: June 24, 2005
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 355 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 02:30 AM UTC
USArmy2534
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 02:57 AM UTC
Yes, the Tamiya M1025 kit is the way to start. The weapons are pretty good, though I think the Tamiya M2 is much better than their Mk-19, but both are very usable. A good aftermarket kit to enhance if you want is Blast Model's Humvee weapons set. It adds a new turret ring, resin M2 and Mk-19 and all the mount. Its meant more for current operations with the new frontal shield and a secondary mount for a M249, but you can easily use what you need.
Something also to consider is this. If you get the Tamiya M1046 TOW launcher and use the Blast Models set, you'll get the flat panel doors. I don't know if you had a SINCGARS set in 91, but Pro Art makes a set. The Tamiya kits both have the old radio.
The wading gear exhaust and intake is included in at least the M1025 kit and I'm pretty sure its in the M1046 kit as well. The exhaust is molded solid so detail is alright, but if you want exceptional, Eduard has a PE set.
For a really good representation of a Desert Storm humvee, any of the above should get you there. Best of luck, let me know if you need anything.
Jeff
Something also to consider is this. If you get the Tamiya M1046 TOW launcher and use the Blast Models set, you'll get the flat panel doors. I don't know if you had a SINCGARS set in 91, but Pro Art makes a set. The Tamiya kits both have the old radio.
The wading gear exhaust and intake is included in at least the M1025 kit and I'm pretty sure its in the M1046 kit as well. The exhaust is molded solid so detail is alright, but if you want exceptional, Eduard has a PE set.
For a really good representation of a Desert Storm humvee, any of the above should get you there. Best of luck, let me know if you need anything.
Jeff
Jumpmaster1a
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 108 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 03:30 AM UTC
Hey, Dave!
Your title caught my attention, as I was in ODS, too. Interestingly, I had a TOW platoon in the 82d ABN and we used HMMWVs too. Mine was an old M966, I think. It was a hardtop and had many miles on it. The biggest thing I remember is how much gear we carried around. We tried to adhere to the load SOP as much as possible; but those last minute add ons kept coming. To try to answer your questions, I'd go with what your other respondent (sp?) said. The only thing I'd add is be sure to weather the heck out of your interior. I know mine was not the cleanest in the world. Additionally, I like the Verlinden radio set upgrades and some of the interior details included. I hope to add some of these details to my own "Delta 30" project. Best wishes on completion of your project and post some pictures of your work! I'm looking forward to seeing your rig. Dave
Your title caught my attention, as I was in ODS, too. Interestingly, I had a TOW platoon in the 82d ABN and we used HMMWVs too. Mine was an old M966, I think. It was a hardtop and had many miles on it. The biggest thing I remember is how much gear we carried around. We tried to adhere to the load SOP as much as possible; but those last minute add ons kept coming. To try to answer your questions, I'd go with what your other respondent (sp?) said. The only thing I'd add is be sure to weather the heck out of your interior. I know mine was not the cleanest in the world. Additionally, I like the Verlinden radio set upgrades and some of the interior details included. I hope to add some of these details to my own "Delta 30" project. Best wishes on completion of your project and post some pictures of your work! I'm looking forward to seeing your rig. Dave
djohannsen
Joined: June 24, 2005
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 355 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 04:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes, the Tamiya M1025 kit is the way to start.
A good aftermarket kit to enhance if you want is Blast Model's Humvee weapons set. It adds a new turret ring, resin M2 and Mk-19 and all the mount.
From the PMMS site, I thought that the Tamiya was the kit to start with. I hadn't read anything about the Blast Model set, so thanks for the recommendation.
Quoted Text
Something also to consider is this. If you get the Tamiya M1046 TOW launcher and use the Blast Models set, you'll get the flat panel doors. I don't know if you had a SINCGARS set in 91, but Pro Art makes a set. The Tamiya kits both have the old radio.
I had thought about the M1046, but this kit would have a different layout in the cargo bed. I want to build the model with the hatch open and showing all the interior detail, so I think that adding armor to the doors of the M1025 is a less painful way to go than trying to scratch build the appropriate racks in the cargo area of an M1046. We did not have the SINCGARS (I don't believe that the Marines fielded this radio set for quite some time after Desert Storm).
Quoted Text
The wading gear exhaust and intake is included in at least the M1025 kit and I'm pretty sure its in the M1046 kit as well. The exhaust is molded solid so detail is alright, but if you want exceptional, Eduard has a PE set.
Glad to hear that the wading kit is included (the photos at the Tamiya site show a build without the wading kit). I'll take a look at the Eduard set as well (I've been happy with the two other Eduard sets that I've used).
Quoted Text
For a really good representation of a Desert Storm humvee, any of the above should get you there. Best of luck, let me know if you need anything.
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for all the help so far. The final thing that I forgot to mention in my initial post is in regards to the camo-nets and poles. We carried these lashed to the rear of the vehicle (fastened to the cargo gate). Do you know if anyone makes a camo-net bundle (i.e., stowed in its grey/green vinyl cover with the pole/spreader bag)? I can't imagine a HMMWV without the nets, as these were an integral part of our lives (we could get them put-up and torn-down in no time). The other distinctive thing that we did was (using the quick release on the pack straps) we mounted the ALICE packs on the doors, so that they wouldn't clutter the inside of the vehicle. So, I guess that I will need to find a good set of ALICE packs. Again, thanks for all the help.
Dave
djohannsen
Joined: June 24, 2005
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 355 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 04:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey, Dave!
Your title caught my attention, as I was in ODS, too. Interestingly, I had a TOW platoon in the 82d ABN and we used HMMWVs too.
TOW platoon and Army... That's two strikes so far.
Quoted Text
The biggest thing I remember is how much gear we carried around. We tried to adhere to the load SOP as much as possible; but those last minute add ons kept coming.
Our situation got a bit out of hand as well. Before we moved west for the start of the ground war, my platton sargeant and I really worked out a load SOP and made the Marines chuck everything else. We dug a big hole and filled it with personal trash when we left the Kafji area (a lot of unhappy Marines, but my Gunny and I decided that being able to get to the other weapon and ammo was more improtant that anything else). Anyway, the more that I think about getting started on this project the more the memories (all of them good) come flooding back. Glad to bump into you.
Dave
Silverleaf
Joined: July 09, 2007
KitMaker: 141 posts
Armorama: 123 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 04:43 AM UTC
Great idea! I was a TOW gunner in HQ Co, 2nd Mar Reg during ODS. I was attached to the 4th MEB, so the only real desert time I had was during our exercises (including all 4 Sea Soldier demonstrations).
I don't have the answers to all of your questions; but, this is what I suggest. First, all USMC Humvee's have the fording kits installed. As already mentioned the Tamiya TOW kit is very good (that is what I am going to put together) and has both the fording kit and the supplemental armor. I am using the Eduard PE kit; but, I also believe that they have one for Heavy Guns. I haven't verified the tire tread, but I believe it is correct for ODS. As well as the radio set. Remember we Marines had older stuff, including comm gear. There is also a much better Pioneer Tool kit from Verlinden that I am using. It is a combination of resin and PE, and includes two sets.
I have not started mine yet either due to lack of skill. I still want to put a few more builds under my belt. I really want to put a lot of love into this one. In fact, I have pictures of our vehicles painted in our first desert pattern. We just painted over the green with sand. So they are stil tri-colored with black, brown, and sand. If I recall correctly, we did one Sea Soldier with them painted up that way before we painted them all one color (sand). I don't know if it will show up in 1/35, but we hand painted the sand. So I am going to airbrush all of the other colors and hand paint the sand on my model.
Just to let you know, one of the books I am using for reference is the HMMWV Workhorse of the Army by Carl Schulze (ISBN 9623676767). Most of the pics are later than ODS; but, our vehicles didn't change that much. On page 15, the upper right picture is a picture of our Section Leaders vehicle (with MK19) while were in Turkey for Display Determination 92. Also on page 19, the upper right picture is one of our TOW vehicles. It is not MY vehicle, but I am right behind him.
I hope that some of this helps. Semper Fi.
I don't have the answers to all of your questions; but, this is what I suggest. First, all USMC Humvee's have the fording kits installed. As already mentioned the Tamiya TOW kit is very good (that is what I am going to put together) and has both the fording kit and the supplemental armor. I am using the Eduard PE kit; but, I also believe that they have one for Heavy Guns. I haven't verified the tire tread, but I believe it is correct for ODS. As well as the radio set. Remember we Marines had older stuff, including comm gear. There is also a much better Pioneer Tool kit from Verlinden that I am using. It is a combination of resin and PE, and includes two sets.
I have not started mine yet either due to lack of skill. I still want to put a few more builds under my belt. I really want to put a lot of love into this one. In fact, I have pictures of our vehicles painted in our first desert pattern. We just painted over the green with sand. So they are stil tri-colored with black, brown, and sand. If I recall correctly, we did one Sea Soldier with them painted up that way before we painted them all one color (sand). I don't know if it will show up in 1/35, but we hand painted the sand. So I am going to airbrush all of the other colors and hand paint the sand on my model.
Just to let you know, one of the books I am using for reference is the HMMWV Workhorse of the Army by Carl Schulze (ISBN 9623676767). Most of the pics are later than ODS; but, our vehicles didn't change that much. On page 15, the upper right picture is a picture of our Section Leaders vehicle (with MK19) while were in Turkey for Display Determination 92. Also on page 19, the upper right picture is one of our TOW vehicles. It is not MY vehicle, but I am right behind him.
I hope that some of this helps. Semper Fi.
djohannsen
Joined: June 24, 2005
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 355 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 06:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There is also a much better Pioneer Tool kit from Verlinden that I am using. It is a combination of resin and PE, and includes two sets.
I'll definitely have to look around for this one, so thanks for the head's up.
Quoted Text
I have not started mine yet either due to lack of skill. I still want to put a few more builds under my belt. I really want to put a lot of love into this one. In fact, I have pictures of our vehicles painted in our first desert pattern.
Yep, this idea was what brought me back into modeling after a thirty-or-so-year lay-off. I also would like to make this kit something special, which is why I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. I know for a fact that I don't yet have the skills to build the kit as I would like it to turn out, but I have quite an urge to get started anyway.
I really wish that I had some photos of our vehicles. As we were tied to an MPS squadron, my Bn was one of the first to head over. At the time, they were telling us that we couldn't take cameras, so I don't have any photos at all (well, I've got a platoon photo posed on an AA gun taken in the rear while awaiting redeployment). I feel like I want to get this kit built before I forget everything. In fact, it was only after starting this thread and thinking back that I remembered teh bit about the camo nets and ALICE packs.
Quoted Text
It is not MY vehicle, but I am right behind him.
My brush with immortality was being quoted in an issue of the "Leatherneck" after we got a little trigger time at Kafji - I wish that I had that issue. Congrats on your fifteen minutes. :-) As for references, I was thinking about starting with the Squadron "Hummer In Action" book. I know that there are some factual errors, but given the publication date, it ought to have some photos of Marine 1044s. So, thanks for everything and good luck when you tackle your project.
Semper Fi,
Dave
marcb
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,244 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 06:41 AM UTC
Verlinden sells a US "pre Singcars" radio set, called Nato radio sets. They also sell a booklet in the Warmachine series on the Humvee. Published during Desert Strom, and including pics of the then current radio set up, etc.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
USArmy2534
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 06:57 AM UTC
Tamiya makes the M1025 and the M1046 TOW carrier. The 1046 is no more than an update with parts for an OIF-style M1046 and deletion of some M1025 specific parts. Blast models makes accessory sets for various things, in this case it has a few for the humvee.
As for which to get, well then get both!
Two humvees are always better than one (note that this is coming from a guy who has four built or in progress and another on the way!). Honestly, both kits have bits of what you want, but given what you've asked for then the M1025 seems to be the way to go. The biggest reason you'd need the M1046 it would be for the doors, which you are not going to find anywhere else. The M1046 is not going to come with either weapons or, like you mentioned, the interior that you want (except the M1046 has the hydraulic acuators for the rear hatch), so if you were to get the 1046, you'd need the Blast set. Speaking of which, here is a link for the Blast Model's set I'm talking about:
Blast Set
For an resin Marine exhaust in non-PE check this out (just ignore that its for OIF)
OIF humvee accessory
Got you there. Tamiya came out with an accessory set of ALICE packs called something like Modern Accessories. There are plenty of ALICE packs in there. Tamiya has used the sprues in other releases from the M1A2 to the M113. There is also a sprue of ALICE packs in the M1046 kit, so another plus to picking it up.
As for the camo, I honestly don't know. They are not in either Tamiya kits that I recall, but there may be a resin copy in some accessory set somewhere that includes it as some random piece of equipment. Best bet is to scratch it. I'd think some small net, fake leaves meant for dioramas or from a railroad hobby store, and some brass or evergreen rod for the poles
Jeff
As for which to get, well then get both!
Two humvees are always better than one (note that this is coming from a guy who has four built or in progress and another on the way!). Honestly, both kits have bits of what you want, but given what you've asked for then the M1025 seems to be the way to go. The biggest reason you'd need the M1046 it would be for the doors, which you are not going to find anywhere else. The M1046 is not going to come with either weapons or, like you mentioned, the interior that you want (except the M1046 has the hydraulic acuators for the rear hatch), so if you were to get the 1046, you'd need the Blast set. Speaking of which, here is a link for the Blast Model's set I'm talking about:Blast Set
For an resin Marine exhaust in non-PE check this out (just ignore that its for OIF)
OIF humvee accessory
Quoted Text
So, I guess that I will need to find a good set of ALICE packs. Again, thanks for all the help.
Got you there. Tamiya came out with an accessory set of ALICE packs called something like Modern Accessories. There are plenty of ALICE packs in there. Tamiya has used the sprues in other releases from the M1A2 to the M113. There is also a sprue of ALICE packs in the M1046 kit, so another plus to picking it up.
As for the camo, I honestly don't know. They are not in either Tamiya kits that I recall, but there may be a resin copy in some accessory set somewhere that includes it as some random piece of equipment. Best bet is to scratch it. I'd think some small net, fake leaves meant for dioramas or from a railroad hobby store, and some brass or evergreen rod for the poles
Jeff
Silverleaf
Joined: July 09, 2007
KitMaker: 141 posts
Armorama: 123 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 07:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My brush with immortality was being quoted in an issue of the "Leatherneck" after we got a little trigger time at Kafji - I wish that I had that issue. Congrats on your fifteen minutes. :-) As for references, I was thinking about starting with the Squadron "Hummer In Action" book. I know that there are some factual errors, but given the publication date, it ought to have some photos of Marine 1044s. So, thanks for everything and good luck when you tackle your project.
I am not sure if you can get back issues of Leatherneck Magazine, but here is there email address to ask about it: [email protected]
I also own the "Hummer in Action" book, but have not taken a close look. Maybe I'll pull it out tonight and see what it has in it for some TOW vehicles.
djohannsen
Joined: June 24, 2005
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 355 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 02:39 AM UTC
First, let me again say thank you to all who have given so much help already. Next, I hope that I may ask a quick question to anyone who can help...
Given several hearty recommendations, I've located the Verlinden NATO radio set. From what I can see in the few photos on the web it has the vehicle mount/power supply, but does it include a KY-57? Even our platoon freq. was covered in Desert Shield/Storm, so I would like to include the KY-57 unit. My memory is really fuzzy on the exact set-up, so I'm wondering if anyone has a photo of the radio set-up in a HMMWV with the KY-57 (the obvious Google searches didn't turn-up anything). My vague recollection is actually that we just wedged/jammed/tossed the KY-57 unit where we could (i.e., there may be no permanent bracket for the unit in the HMMWV) given the cable length limitations. If someone could help at all with this (am I remembering correctly?) I would be further in everyone's debt.
Dave
Given several hearty recommendations, I've located the Verlinden NATO radio set. From what I can see in the few photos on the web it has the vehicle mount/power supply, but does it include a KY-57? Even our platoon freq. was covered in Desert Shield/Storm, so I would like to include the KY-57 unit. My memory is really fuzzy on the exact set-up, so I'm wondering if anyone has a photo of the radio set-up in a HMMWV with the KY-57 (the obvious Google searches didn't turn-up anything). My vague recollection is actually that we just wedged/jammed/tossed the KY-57 unit where we could (i.e., there may be no permanent bracket for the unit in the HMMWV) given the cable length limitations. If someone could help at all with this (am I remembering correctly?) I would be further in everyone's debt.
Dave
Jumpmaster1a
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 108 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 05:21 AM UTC
Hey, Dave!
A publication called Warmachines No. 7 "M998 HMMWV Hummer and Derivatives" has pictures of what you seek. Additionally, wiring diagrams are included.
If I had a scanner, I'd shoot some pics for you; but that's a no-go. The VLS NATO Radio Sets update kit is nice; but has no KY-57.
Dang! I just realized the kit doesn't have hand mics with MRE spoons taped on to replace those clips that always broke. Oh, well. That's why they call it modelling, I guess.
Good luck in finding references and with your project. Dave
A publication called Warmachines No. 7 "M998 HMMWV Hummer and Derivatives" has pictures of what you seek. Additionally, wiring diagrams are included.
If I had a scanner, I'd shoot some pics for you; but that's a no-go. The VLS NATO Radio Sets update kit is nice; but has no KY-57.
Dang! I just realized the kit doesn't have hand mics with MRE spoons taped on to replace those clips that always broke. Oh, well. That's why they call it modelling, I guess.
Good luck in finding references and with your project. Dave
djohannsen
Joined: June 24, 2005
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 355 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 05:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey, Dave!
A publication called Warmachines No. 7 "M998 HMMWV Hummer and Derivatives" has pictures of what you seek. Additionally, wiring diagrams are included.
If I had a scanner, I'd shoot some pics for you; but that's a no-go. The VLS NATO Radio Sets update kit is nice; but has no KY-57.
Dang! I just realized the kit doesn't have hand mics with MRE spoons taped on to replace those clips that always broke. Oh, well. That's why they call it modelling, I guess.
Good luck in finding references and with your project. Dave
Thanks for the pointer to the reference and for the info on the Verlinden set. I've got the Tamiya 1025 on order now, and am starting to think about what accessories/detail sets/conversions/references I want to order. Based on what everyone has recommended, I think that I'll grab the Verlinden radio set, the Warmachines No. 7 book, and the CMK engine. I am also still poking around to decide whether to go with the Eduard or Lionroar etch set (from what I've read, I doubt that I will have any regrets no matter which one of these I pick). I also will grab the Tamiya "Modern Equipment Set" in order to get the camo net bags and poles and the ALICE packs. At this point, all that will be holding me back is my utter lack of skill. ;-)
Again, thanks for the help.
Dave
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