How can a village be captured ? By surrounding it, by gaining control over the strategic points around it or simply by storming it ?

Mmm ... I need this information for a diorama representing the battle of Mesnil-Adelée (7 August 1944; the farest point of the German 2nd Panzer Division's advance during the counterattack in the Mortain area - Operation Luttich). And I am a bit confused : I read that the Germans captured the village. But what does this mean ? How would it be correct ? By making a diorama representing the sourroundings of the village or the village's ruined streets ?

Btw, if any of you have more information about the German 2nd Panzer Division's activity during the counterattack in the Mortain area, 7 August 1944, please let me know and help me .

Ola Alex

In the end it all comes down to what the kind of story is you want to depict. And you fit the story of what really happened and you adapt it to fit into the scene. If you make a dio with the Surroundings of Mesnil-Adelée how are you going to make clear that it is in the area of Mesnil-Adelée and not in the forests of Arnhem, North Itay, Swiss or France. You can place a roadsign with Mesnil-Adelée but if it is about the surroundings of an action you always get the feel of preparation before they move in.
If you want to give the idea that the Germans really have taken the city or Village then in my opinion an urban scene with possibly copies of real buildings of the village. In this case you also could scatter around clues from who the city was captured, Helmets, weapons other gear, vehicles, etc etc. Some wounded soldiers around getting first aid also indicates that there were skirmishes
Last but not least if all else fails... an impressive base with an either impressive nametag telling you What, Where and When.

On the net I could find nothing, as this is a small village. No images too. Only a satelite photo of it's surroundings - but not very helpful. No information about how this village was captured, so I don't know wether to make an urban or a "nature" diorama. True information can only be found in books, but here in Romania there are no books about Operation Luttich.

Btw would a title like
2nd Panzer Division at Mesnil-Adelée , 7 August 1944
-Operation Luttich-
be enough to show that my diorama represents the capture of THAT village ?

Ola Alex

Well the good thing is that it doesn't have to be specifically pictures from Mortain. All the small villages in that area look alike. Lot of houses made of normal stone (not bricks) And the countryside consists of Bocage.
So basically every village in that region where you have good pictures of and every piece of countryside in that area can be used as reference... .and the good thing is... it can all be found on the web...

If it helps you a bit this is more or less a walkaround around Normandy I picked from a Dutch site. If you scroll a bit down it gives you an impression of how the area where operation Luttich took place. in my opinion it is perfect reference for what you want to do.
Normandy Walkaround from Twenot

Oh and that title would definately do the trick.
You could even give it a more dramatic title like
(in big font)
False Hope
(in smaller font)
The German Capture of Mesnil-Adelée
2nd PZ div Operation Luttich 7 August 1944

Just a guess I'm only making things up now

Great idea for a diorama. The important part of what you're doing is that the plan you are placing will help develop a great end product.
Robert is right in that you can place a street sign in the diorama to indicate its location.

From a miliatary perspective remember that to 'take a town' simply meant you controlled key elements. High ground, intersections, things like that.

You can coordinate key elements such as mentioned and give it a name like 'Far West '44' or 'Farthest Reach '44'

One other thing I have used in projects is the local tourist website. They will sometimes have key photos of the area that you can use. The building may be current, but the shape of the intersections or bridge may be the original shape and structure.

In my opinion, a good title has 2 parts : the artistic part : The Last Hope, or Vaterland Invaded, or The First Day in Hell, or... and the historical part : Grossdeutchland division, 11 October 1941, West of Bryansk ; or 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" at Mortain, 7 August 1944; or... . And that's what I will try to do.

Thanks for the link !

This is the link of the satelite photo:

http://www.quid.fr/communes.html?mode=detail&id=5480&req=Le_Mesnil-Adelee&style=gmap&gmaptype=2

My diorama will have a Panzer 4 J and a Flak 18 88mm gun ... and around German 15 soldiers.

The Americans at Normandy by McManus has a great read about the situation. Several first hand accounts paint a vivid picture of the counter-attack.

From that satellite image I can see no forests or bushes around Mesnil-Adelée ... just an open plain. And I read on Wikipedia that on 7th of August (the first day ), after the fog dispersed, the Germans were caught in the open by the airforces.

I found a picture from Operation Luttich on the net which I think to be a good refference, if I finally decide to represent the battle INSIDE the village (an urban diorama):


What do you think ?

Btw, special thanks for your help .

Question : is it wrong/correct if I make the road south of Mesnil-Adelee "entrenched", like this one (I think many roads in the bocage area were "entrenched") :


I can't see whether it is correct or not only by looking at the satellite image.

Ola Alex

No it is not wrong to do this. The whole area there looked like this... deep roads with these high banks next to it full grown. with on the other side farmers fields. Quite generic for the whole region. and would be perfectly suitable for what you want.

Thanks !
In this case, I will make a "nature" diorama, not an urban one. I have another good picture too in my computer but I don't know how to post it - because I don't know how to post pictures from my computer.

Now the only question is : where should I place the Flak 18...off the road, of course ... maybe in a hole that have just been dug by the Germans....and surrounded with sandbags - again, would that be strange ?

I will start the work at this diorama in winter, as now I ran out of fuel, after finnishing my second diorama ... I'll post it soon. And winter because then is a holiday - I don't work in school time ... .

Yes, I know, I am not "snel", as you, the Dutch people, say .

Hi Alex,

The 88mm does not need to be dug in. The 88mm was often just emplaced from it's carriages, to be enable rapid movement when it came under attack. In the fluid fighting like in the Bocage, often the gun was not even removed from the carriages, with just the hinged legs lowered to give the gun some traverse.

Cheers
Henk

Oh I see ... anyway, I will make it pointed to the skies (due to heavy Allied planes attacks).

Alex, I do not think you should point it towards the sky. In Normandy, especially after the landing, most of the 88s were put into anti-tank/vehicle roles. They would be located at the end of long streets in vilages, at the top of a hill facing down a road, or on the edge of a field under tree cover. The Germans at that point relied on the smaller 20mm AA and their small arms because they were shooting at fighters and small low level bombers. In one case an 88mm gun attached to the 2nd SS Panzer Division took out some 22 British tanks in the Falaise pocket. It sat on a hill next to a house for cover and as the tanks went bye in the valley road below it opened fire on them. There was also a machine gunner in the same unit who held up an entire company of American soldiers by firing down a long road; allowing three companies of Germans to retreat.

Hope this helps a little.
-Mike

... so you suggest me to place the 88mm near the road, under a tree ... the surroundings of Mesnil Adelee consists in open plain ... and trees only along the entrenched roads ... I'll place it under one of those trees .
Here is an image of Mesnil Adelee's surroundings - press "+" for zooming it :
http://www.quid.fr/communes.html?mode=detail&id=5480&req=Le_Mesnil-Adelee&style=gmap&gmaptype=2

Hahaa sorry I was not very specific. It does not HAVE to be under a tree or cover. They just threw them where they needed to be. Long entrenched roads with no escape made for easy kill zones. When contact was made they simply hooked them up to the trailer and drove away. Remember it is your dio and you can do anything you want! Basically as long as you get cammo/ paint and equiptment right and the correct foliage color it is realistic! The hedgerows are high enough and thick enough to provide great cover. When I lived in France we took many trips to various battlezones. The Bocage is a crazy place. I do not understand how men could fight there and survive.

-Mike

Well ..... many didn't survived ... .

Mmm, I'll put it near the road, right near a bush. See this image :


What is that hole in the left - is it made by a tank? But isn't the road entrenched ? Or are there hedgerows on both the sides of the road ?

Looks like the road is slightly entrenched and then with a hedgerow on at least the left side, and probably the right. I can't positively tell if a tank would've made that hole or if its just natural, but if you look at the road, you can see tire marks that head down the road. There doesn't appear to be anything that veers off towards the hole, so I don't think this is a vehicle-made hole. Also, and this may also be hard to describe, but the hole doesn't look...'destroyed' like a tank went crashing through it. The vegetation leading from the edge of the road into the hedgerow itself looks fairly undisturbed. Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to describe. Hope that helps.

Jeff

Oh, I see ... ingenious ! Are you a detective ?

Hi Alex

If you have a fast internet connection you may want to take a look at these videos.

Bear in mind they originate from nazi propaganda films and you may want to turn off the sound so as not to listen to the commentary and crappy "rousing" music.

One shows the 88 in action as described by Henk and MikeC, firing against Allied troops with their wheels still attached.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdhMuC4ctfk&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruurZ5tJrZY&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyz8ukewsGE&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x4Jj4znb5A&mode=related&search=

Should give you a bit of a feel for what you could portray.

Alan

I don't know if you have the book or if someone hasn't suggested it yet, but this book gives some details of the actions there.

Saving the Breakout: The 30th Division's Heroic Stand at Mortain, August 7-12, 1944
by Alwyn Featherston

Its a good book, I just finished re-reading my copy.

Mike T.

Yes...I see, thank you for videos.
About the book...here in Romania, there are a few books about WWII . I can't have it .

Btw, should, or shouldn't I put the shield on the 88mm ?

Hehe, no I have a small hobby of image interpretation, but thats mostly satillite images.

Jeff

Alex,
Send me a private email and I'll see if I can scan for you relevant pages on that part of the battle.

Mike T.