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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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M1A3 Abrams
HeavyArty
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:06 AM UTC
Yes, the title is correct. On page 17 of the 20 Aug issue of Army Times there is an article titled "Army Looks to Upgrade Abrams Line." It talks about new electronics packages and equipment to make them compatible with FCS. It also talks about a lightweight 120mm main gun, new track and upgraded running gear, improved propulsion system, and new, lightweight armor. It also says the Abrams will remain in service past 2050. Anyone else have any info on this?
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:18 AM UTC
Wasn't the M1A3 the one used in Viet Nam in brown, green and black camo?
(Joke based on a conversation elsewhere.)
mother
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:27 AM UTC
2050, amazing...I'll be 88 by then Was there any tentative dates slated for the new recondition A3. Looks like a third tank coming soon from Dragaon.

Joe
Tankrider
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:35 AM UTC
Defense News had a similar article about the same time that DJ was on his MRAP replacing the tank & Brad rant. Personally, I do not think that we will see FCS, maybe just some pieces and parts that get added to the current family of vehicles. However, we will see...
John
sgtreef
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:36 AM UTC
Kind of changes what was posted a few weeks back about the M1 series going away.
steelrudi
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:00 PM UTC
the M-60 was too used in Vietnam!! LOL
sarge18
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:13 PM UTC
HeavyArty,
The information in the Army Times is pretty much correct, although some of the information is over 2 years old now. We've known since at least 2005 that the Abrams chassis, in whatever configuration, will be around until 2050 or beyond.

The discussion in the newest version (potentially dubbed the M1A3) is only currently at the requirements document level, which afterwards will develop the future variant(s). Many of these changes that are being looked at are incorporating the spin out technologies from the FCS program (which we WILL see, just no one knows when, how, or what), while other are looking at taking advantage of new technologies to lighten the load on the chassis. Every pound we reduce somewhere allows us to increase the weight elsewhwhere. We are pretty much at max capacity on the current variants, in terms of weight.

The bad note about all of this is, there is no current prototype of the M1A3. In the world of the Bradley, though, there are tentative variants currently out there that you can touch and operate. One was shown last year at the Infantry Warfighting Conference, and will probably be shown again this September down in Fort Benning Georgia.

Jed Sargent
HeavyArty
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:15 PM UTC
Thanks Jed. Good info.

AJ and Rudi, the M1A3 and M60A7 were both used in Vietnam and had red and brown camo. I know it is true because I have seen pictures of it in a jungle environment and what I say is gospel

Sorry, couldn't resist.

As to time lines for the M1A3, nope, none given. I'm sure Dragon will have the kit out soon though.
Tankrider
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Posted: Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

HeavyArty,
The information in the Army Times is pretty much correct, although some of the information is over 2 years old now. We've known since at least 2005 that the Abrams chassis, in whatever configuration, will be around until 2050 or beyond.

The discussion in the newest version (potentially dubbed the M1A3) is only currently at the requirements document level, which afterwards will develop the future variant(s). Many of these changes that are being looked at are incorporating the spin out technologies from the FCS program (which we WILL see, just no one knows when, how, or what), while other are looking at taking advantage of new technologies to lighten the load on the chassis. Every pound we reduce somewhere allows us to increase the weight elsewhwhere. We are pretty much at max capacity on the current variants, in terms of weight.

The bad note about all of this is, there is no current prototype of the M1A3. In the world of the Bradley, though, there are tentative variants currently out there that you can touch and operate. One was shown last year at the Infantry Warfighting Conference, and will probably be shown again this September down in Fort Benning Georgia.

Jed Sargent



Jed,
How is life??? Are you in AOB or whatever they call it here in the 21st Century???

John
Henk
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Posted: Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 01:47 AM UTC
Is there a tweaklist of what needs to be changed on the Dragon kit to build the 'Nam version?
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 05:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Is there a tweaklist of what needs to be changed on the Dragon kit to build the 'Nam version?


Just paint it green, brown and black and place a bunch of jungle looking plants and palms around it and make it look like this.
. Right, Gino?
TopSmith
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Posted: Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 07:05 PM UTC
I just know I have a photo somewhere of them applying a coat of that red clay based Zimm in the field to the 60's in the delta. I'll post it just as soon as I find it.
210cav
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Posted: Friday, August 17, 2007 - 03:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Defense News had a similar article about the same time that DJ was on his MRAP replacing the tank & Brad rant. Personally, I do not think that we will see FCS, maybe just some pieces and parts that get added to the current family of vehicles. However, we will see...
John



John-- Rant? By 2050, if the Abrams and Bradley are any more than museum pieces we should all be amazed. The defense industrial base relies on congressional funding (what district is the item to be procured from?) and investor confidence (do you own stock in GDLS?). If I told you the Abrams was going away for the MRAP, Detroit and Lima workers would be nervous, the congress would launch an investigation (yes, another one and blame it on Karl Rowe), GDLS stock would fall. The Army would then delay or cancel any impending changes. The congressmen/women would then go to GDLS for more campaign contributions. (Success always has a thousand fathers, failure is an orphan). But, if I told you the M1A3 Abrams and the super new improved Bradley would be coming soon, cash would flow to GDLS, the congress would be happy and I would get to buy my MRAPs in peace. No need to piddle on a skunk.
My two cents.
DJ

PS-- disregard comments from John Charvat, he is still annoyed at the OER I gave him......"rant"?
Jacques
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Posted: Friday, August 17, 2007 - 06:38 AM UTC
The only problem is wether or not anything will come from all the funded "studies" that are/will be undertaken. DoD loves to fund things that never come to fruition and that still keeps Defense industry stocks up. Crusader anyone?

It still kinda chaps my hide to see the Military and Govt dancing to the tunes set by the defense industry, who are not interested in doing the best job possible,but seeing how far they can string it along. Before anyone gets too bent, I have relatives and friends in places like United Defense, Raytheon, and other smaller places. They all are fairly pissed to one degree or another at how much the corporations are milking the system for only their benefit, even if it ends up costing lives in the long run.

Hopefully something good will come of all this, but don't hold your breath...
Trisaw
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Posted: Friday, August 17, 2007 - 08:41 AM UTC
All Government is a committee that needs people to agree to be on the same page in order for programs to work. Issues with the gun, the engine, the weapons, the weight, etc. could doom the project.
Tankrider
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Posted: Friday, August 17, 2007 - 09:37 AM UTC
[/quote]PS-- disregard comments from John Charvat, he is still annoyed at the OER I gave him......"rant"?[/quote]

LOL...

DJ,
It is still fun to poke at you 18 years after the fact. Pulling the tiger's tail must mean you have a plan for its teeth. Staying away form the HQ building seemed to work in the past. OK, maybe you were not ranting about the MRAP, funding for weapons systems or how you did TC3 on a Sherman tank...

You are still one of my favoritest former Battalion Commanders.

John Charvat
Green 1 Ancient
D Troop, 10th US, Fighting by God, Cavalry
Buffalo Soldiers
steelrudi
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Posted: Friday, August 17, 2007 - 11:01 PM UTC
Yeah, and the NVA used the T-72 and T-80 too right? This is great fun! We could always do a what if!
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