I am trying to create my first Vietnam Firebase Diorama. Complete with Helo pads, sentry posts, hospital, bunkers, living quarters. Also tunnel systems for Viet Cong. The only problem is I dont know where to start. I've been trying to find pics with different views of Firebases in Vietnam during the war, but they are just thumbnails. Can some one please assist with pics or links to pics I can get a go bearing to start from.

Kits I have: 1:35 scale

Verlinden Productions
2050 - Vietcong 2 Figs
2128 - Vietcong Running 2 Figs
2079 - US Rangers Vietnam 3 Figs
1585 - US Military Vechicle Stowage Vietnam
1718 - Palm Tree Sea Wall Section
0042 - Camouflange Netting x2
0058 - Palm Plants x2
050 - Lead Foil
0044 - Static Grass x2
0070 - Kitbags & Rucksacks

Woodland Scenics
S30 Dead Fall x2

Academy
1389 - M113A1 A.P.C. Vietnam
1326 - M151A Mutt Jeep and Trailer
2199 - UH-1C Heuy Heavy Hog
2193 - AW-1W Super Cobra
1355 - M48A5.K Patton

Dragon
3304 - Viet Cong 4Figs x2
US Marines ( KHE SANH 1968 ) 4Figs
3316 - US Navy Seals II 4 Figs

Italeri
417 - Command Post
776 - Ambulance Jeep

Tamiya
35025 - Sand Bag Set x2
35229 - Allied Vechiles Access. Set

It appears to me there are loads of start areas. But as the dio is going to be a considerable size, it would be best to do some planning work first.

I usually build the vehicles (and helicopters in your case) first, as only then do you see the widths and lengths needed to place these. Then plan around them. Use a cardboard sheet to get an idea of where the placement wil be ... marking it with a pen... even making a rough cardboard version of your planned buildings. When this has come together .. plan where your tunnels will be and how much of them will be visible. Then you can start your groundwork for real. As this comes together, I start on the figures and adapt them to the terrain, vehicles and buildings.
this method allows you to change and chop as you progress, and the final scene will become clear as you go along. It also gives you more time to research the buildings and details you are unsure of at the moment.

I've built all the vechiles and helicopters and all the figures. I've found out for the scale that I am looking at with each item being spaced evenly as to give different focal points it will be approx. 4'x5'. I am going to incooperate a pallet into 2 layers. The top of course the firebase and treeline surrounding. The lower level will be the tunnels with only mininum parts showing. But that's where my blank wall really starts. I have no idea what a tunnel scene looks like unless it on a Vietnam movie. My ideas for building the tunnels will be to use styrofoam to give that dugout wall look.

I have a plan sort of. Its just I want a few more helicopters and I can't find them in 1/35 Scale. Even a kit that makes up a Sea Bee Unit would be supper. But I really want is the proper artillery guns for a firebase even if I have to modify the kits. Also, OH-58D Combat Scout/Kiowa , ACH-47A "Gunship" Chinook , OH-6 A Cayuse , HH-53 C "Jolly Green Giant" , or CH-37.

Do you know what company may make these,? I feel that once I have every kit I truly want the puzzle pieces may fit into place or it may become worse. Will keep posted>

I feel you diorama sounds just too ambitious. Ive seen large dioramas before but they take years to build and in many cases involove the cooperation of several modellers. Building a Vietnam firebase is one hell of a project and whilst it would look good once finished will take a lot of effort and time to execute. A lot of the stuff you need in 1/35 isnt available or would require some pretty massive scratch build projects. I dont want to ruin your diorama idea by any means, if you are willing to do it then hell go for.

However I feel with the subject you would like to represent such a scene could be achieved on a smaller scale. Why not construct one section of a fire base? You could have it on a raised base with the base constructed of styrofoam, within that it would be easy to build a small tunnel section and you could have a like a cutaway. Perhaps do a dio that shows the perimeter wire and the land in front of this with a tunnel network underneath then at the other end of the dio the start of the firebase. It would be pretty neat becuase you could have a cutaway effect that gives a view inside the trench system of the firebase itself. The sort of diorama im thinking is if you were to look at the firebase as a cake and your diorama be one slice taken out. Withing this you could add trenches, command bunkers etc, further back you could add a heli pad with some guys unloading supplies from some choppers. I think scaled done, this project would be a lot easier to tackle and probabaly a lot more fun and less of a headache.

I can see why you're having trouble getting started...there's just too much there. You may want to spend some more time on research here. You have collected a lot of stuff not correct to your historical setting. Also, you want to be sure the stuff you have would be in reasonably close proximity to the other items.

The M48A5K is incorrect for Vietnam, even if you built the American version. The M48A3 by Tamiya would be correct.

Toss the Tamiya sandbags. They look terrible in a dio.

The Italeri Jeep ambulance is WWII vintage, I believe and should not be there. I am not 100% on this, though.

Academy M151A1. If it's the early copy of the Tamiya kit that came with the mortar team, it needs to be backdated or replaced with the correct M151 for a Vietnam scene, It has to have flat front fenders, a single piece of glass for the windscreen and smaller signal lights.

The AH-1W was not ordered by the Marines until 1983. Can't be in Vietnam.

The OH-58D wasn't delivered until 1991. The A was used in Viet Nam, but they are very different birds.


OH-58A


OH-58D

Dragon made/makes an OH-6A approriate to Viet Nam.

Trumpeter makes a CH-47A in 1/35, not a gunship, though.

No Jolly Greens in 1/35 and Global Security doesn't list anything like a H-37 in US inventory. .

Not to put you off but as the guys have mentioned, it is a lot of stuff on the first go. Still its a great project but perhaps you can do it in stages. Perhaps build a helo pad scene first on a simple base, then maybe a mortar pit scene, then a communications bunker, etc. Plan the individual pieces in such a way you can later join them up as you complete each one to form a whole firebase.

That way the project would seem less demanding and you can have the satisfaction of completing something while looking forward to start on the next adjoining piece. Helps avoid the burnout most of us experience on large dios.

Your call though. Here are some potentially useful links. Its been a while and I can't really recall which ones has pics of firebases. Sorry best I can do.
http://www.vietnampix.com/
http://www.pieceuniquegallery.com/
http://www.vwam.com/vets/
http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/vietlink.html
http://www.popasmoke.com/visions/
http://www.geocities.com/~nam_album/

Good Luck on your project.

These might help?



redleg

What you may need to do for research is to find a line drawing of a firebase, then look up each component of the base and 'cobble' them together.

Central Highlands, [ Yard country ], Cambodian border, Northern Highlands, D.M.Z. northern Vietnam, nortneast of Siagon, the delta ?
Vietnam has no " one type of ground " first pick a zone then key on it's topographic and floral features. Google the names of firebases or firebases itself and search.
There are also different " eras " during the conflict. Early advisor period, MACV'S, Green Berets, the escalated years, TET, the Easter offensive etc.
Cheyenne

Guys, CHEERS!!!! The next round is on me!!! You guys are great. First off thanks Al La Fleche for the information on the kits that are off date line. ( I believe I found the correct ones now, will update forum with info later ). Secondly thanks CK Tang for the links for pics on Firebases and all, I will view and use wisely. Red Leg I don't kno where to start,but thanks that is the most lay-mens diagram of the Tunnels I've ever seen. Its a BIG help.

And Al La Fleche you saved me from getting my diorama destroyed by compliments for being wrong...oh boy would've krushed my modelling career.

Thanks Guys....

I know how exciting it feels when you realise you can get loads of kits, figures and aftermarket parts for a certain conflict or battle, but I'd exercise a little caution in how this diorama plays out. First, as everyone's said - research... then think about the level of realism; realism isn't really the word... plausibility is better: Is it plausible that only one of each type of vehicle/helicopter would be in the same scene: for a firebase I could imagine six or seven artillary pieces, maybe with a couple of individual modifications. A trio of M151's, and some 20 or so figures. It's the same with a helo base: there'd be several birds, some tents/bunkers, maybe some M151's... All I'm saying is it's too easy to just include every kit available and make a "survey" diorama of hte Vietnam War, and more of a challenge to produce an accurate, plausible scene with carefully chosen, well researched kits and figures...
(btw: You must have won the lottery to buy all those kits - I've got many of them but they're e-bay mostly and it's taken nearly a year to accumulate them...!)
ps, great figures to get hold of, imho, Verlinden Vietnam figures (3) multipose, HobbyFan US marines (sat on LVTP) and most of the HobbyFan Vietnam series - pricey but beautiful kits: Belgo, if they're still available, also nice poses...

One last thought - make sure your dio base can get through all the doors in your workshop/studio/back bedroom!
Happy modelling - keep us updated


Richard

Ok ok I get the point. Great points you guys gave and I've got the solution I believe, with a little help from some friends. I will try this approach a Firebase with Heuy Dust Off ,a cirrculating Cobra , and a Perimeter on the other side with a few trees and shrubs, and grasses ,inside I will have a few trap doors for the Tunnels which I believe the best location will bew under the Firebase with 2 trap doors on the base as well.
Then I will try for the Halo Base and see if I can blend it in some how. Richard you get a whole six pack . You just reminded stoooopid ole me bout the true size of my dio. I would've built it and it would've stayed in the middle room, cause once that pallet goes thru sideways its only coming back out sideways. HaHa Got a brick! Thow it at my head.
If I feel BRAVE enough I may still try my 1st idea... I hate quititng something that I know I can achieve.

HEY REDLEG,

WHERE THE HELL WERE THEM MAPS OF THE TUNNELS WHEN WE WERE FIGHTING AND LOSING THAT DANGED WAR?

sure would have helped.

...and why would you promote that website in your signature? are you looking for a fight?

kg

Hi Hilltop,

seeing your project, it sounds wonderful, but I must agree it seems too ambitious. As others pointed out many things, also consider the sizes / distances between objects realisticly - a chinook in 1/35 with rotors would take approx 60x40cm/1.8x1.2feet, consider that choppers couldn't be parked to closer than a few couple of meters!
Also, heli pads, artillery (noise, rotor wash, safety) were in quite a distance away from other non related facilities, ammo dumps, baracks, commo- and command posts, each other etc., just approx again 20-30m/60-90feet /35 = 60cm/1.7feet, that would multiply the size of your dio. To the flying cobra, due to the rotor wash they didn't fly above occupied areas low unless necessary, just guess about 30m/90 feet (someone with real experience could say exactly), which means 85cm/2.6feet in the air! All this together, a real size FSB would be around a size of a room, minimum 3x3m, at that would be a very small one
Last thing, the VC: I don't think VC ever tunneled an FSB! Vegetation was cut down to create security perimeters, meaning a very long way to dig, all that effort for a single assault, and it would be immediately destroyed after, not giving any advances for the attack (1 soldier out of the tunnel at once, coming up in a base full of enemy). For a demolition mission, they could slip in to such places at night much easier. If still tunnel, then maybe a single one.
Except special situations (eg. close combat, street fight, special forces), it is simply not realistic to put together US/VC figures on one dio.

Please, don't take it as discouragement, myself started a 1/35 1.6m x 1m project about ten years ago, 50 figures, 10 vechicles, I gave it up 3 years ago (hopefully temporarily), but have to leave out the flying choppers and 2-3 vehicles, half the figures...
It is a problem, that there are not enough adquate figures on the market, Marines rarely met Army on the field, if at all (flak vests vs OD shirts the most visible difference), same goes for special units, plus FSB personnel mostly didn't wear complete equipment, ammo pouches, canteens, shirts, gear web, as they were in different 'action'. Neither Dragon, neither the very nice Hobby Fan figures are really poses for that kind of dio, maybe except a few.

So, this is just my opinion, reasonable would be a few artillery pieces/dug in tank, a heli pad and maybe some bunkers, jeeps. Try to re-think the concept, check reference photos, try to measure distances and scale it down, don't make the mistake of stuffing all available kits on one dio, you know the phrase, less is sometimes more

Finally here are sites with a lots of heli photos:
on the bottom after the unit listings end, there are a few aerial shot of base camps, not FSB's, but might help: http://www.flyarmyair.com/photoframe.htm
again, some aerial base camp photos: http://www.174ahc.org/
lots of base photos (any many more unique pic's): http://www.vhpamuseum.org/places/places.shtml

Of course, if someone has other opinion, experience, please correct me!
Hope it helps and really looking forward to see your progress on the dio, as I'm a big 'Nam fan!

Cheers
Denes

I too must say, that while to have the ambition is great, the exicution would be something else. I myself was bitten by that bug years ago. Between the movies in the 80's and Dragon's NAM series I was going to build a 1/35 scale FSB with all the goodies, helo's, arty, vehicles, etc. I even started searching the world over buying up everything I could getting ready for the start. But the more you research and plan the more you find that:

A - It is way too big to do effectivly short of being a group build. Even with a group of people, where are you going to put the thing? To do it right you would, as stated above, have to dedicate a whole room, if not a whole building to it. You really need to think of a thing like this in terms of Model railroads. It is usually done by 10-20 guys, with a dedicated club house, that they need to charge admission too so that they can pay for it. (Nothing Against Railroaders, I currently have that problem as well)

B - There really is not enough out there to do it right, especially the figures. Even if you had an endless amount of money I don't think that you could purchase and or mould everything you need to pull it off.

That being said, If you have unlimited funds and an army, go for it. If you were local I'd join. But more realistically, do small pieces of the base, a morter pit, arty position, helo pad, etc. on their own. You will get more done and it will allow you to change things up so you wont get burned out (yet another issue for the FSB to deal with). Also, there are lots of other subjects that you can do from Vietnam that can be of good size and very interesting. That is what I do. Something like a section of an armored convoy, a column of M113s crashing through the jungle, a helo field, I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

Again, no one here I think wants to burst you bubble, just trying to keep you from doing what, would most likely be, you white whale.

I don't know a lot about Vietnam era stuff, but IIRC those firebases were fairly large, so it might be easier to model part of it. (Fe just a mortarpit.) Osprey has a volume on Vietnam firebases in their Fortress series.

I like the idea of building it in modular sections that can be added on as time/ ambition permit. If you start reasonably small and finish smaller areas gradually you could expand on them as time goes on. That way they could be taken apart if necessary to get the dio out the door and you could perhaps view it as several smaller dios instead of one massive (and potentially overwhelming) subject.
Of course you'd want to have the whole dio well-thought out in advance so you wouldn't be just adding random components; my suggestion would be to sketch it out on a grid then build sections at a time.

OK first of all. I worked it out and the best way to attack this is in sections. What I am proposing to do is a helio base with 4 or 5 helio, tents, gas truck and some odds and ends, then a tank base, with several tanks maybe 3 or 4. The firebase will go down, but it will just be a section of gun emplacements and othas. I may still go nuts on the partial firebase.

I've looked at some sites online for pics of firebases, helio bases, tank bases and all. So, I now see my vision.

I've posted some pics of my works in progress, but I've but it in the wrong campaign cateorgy. You will find my pics in the ' RIVERINE MILITARY CRAFT-INDOCHINA/VIETNAM .... IN PROGRESS '. That's where you will find pics of my troops, and armor.

Keep ya'll posted.

In the film "We were Soldiers", just as the company arrive in-country, there's a great sweeping camera shot of the helo base, with - exactly as you've suggested - tents, helicopters and fuel stock. It's an excellent source of material, especially shots of the helicopters...

Get a copy and watch - It's also a well made and inspiring film...

Richard

Ok longtime you haven't heard from me. I failed miserably. My project started.. had made good progress, then my niece came to visit. Left the door open and blam, down to the floor did the diorama go. It ended up in 27 pieces, I was totally crushed...... now to start a new project. the next project, I will keep scaled down, no more ideas of 4 foot dioramas. I've begun a project still in the Vietnam Era, but it will be of a rice pattie. Not too small and not too big. Will keep you informed... CHEERS > > HAPPY NEW YEAR > >