Figures
Military figures of all shapes and sizes.
Military figures of all shapes and sizes.
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SOS: frustrated with painting faces
steelskin
Luzon, Philippines
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 07:33 PM UTC
i took a break from modeling vehicles and decided to take another crack at figures. i re-read the historicus forma features on painting figures but i can’t seem to get the whole shadows/highlights/blending thing right. either i end up with faces that look they’ve been mugged or i have to make do with little or (gasp) no shadows at all.
i use winsor and newton oils thinned with turpentine for the faces. i tried both brushing and stippling the flesh coat on and they end up looking rough. is there a correct consistency for the oil/turp mix? how thick or thin should it be? and how do i know if it’s thick/thin enough?
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 09:53 PM UTC
All I can say is "persevere". My first figures' skin looked awful, but with a bit of practice, I'm quite pleased with them. Verlinden suggests the following:
Use Humbrol "desert sand" as a flesh base, then once it's dried (at least 3 or 4 days) apply a mix of Burnt Umber, Raw Sienna and Yellow Ochre artist oils in a raw state to the skin areas, and wipe off with a dry brush. This should leave the colour (a reddy-brown) in the creases. (eye sockets, between the fingers etc) Before this has fully dried, apply a paler mix (almost off-white) to the bridge of the nose, top of the cheeks, forehead and the tip of the chin, and blend - at this stage, you shouldn't need any turps; the paint should be undiluted - this way it blends without completely disolving the basecoat. Once this has dried to your satisfaction, dot in the eyes with off white, (use the same for the teeth if they're showing) and the pupils with a dark dark blue or brown, then use a pinkish brown for the lips, and tongue. Finally, use a darker wash for the entire hair area in the chosen colour, then a lighter undiluted shade lightly brushed on for the hair highlights.
Good advice, but dependant on several factors:
1. If using tamiya figures, there isn't sufficiant detail for this all to work.
2. Best used on really well cast resin/metal figures.
3. Only try this if you have good eyesight.
4. Only try this if you've used oil paints before; ie try them on card or thick paper - get used to their properties - diluted and undiluted - before using them on the figures.
5. Only use this technique if you want your figures to look like Francois Verlinden's
I personally use acrylic - desert sand with a little white mixed in sprayed on as a primer, then a muddy reddy brown as a wash, then picking out the details (eyes, teeth, lips etc) with neat acrylic - Vallejo - and a tiny brush.
BUT don't give up. We are all human and capable of learning and improving. Soon we'll all be marvelling at your pictures of your figures!
All the best
Richard
Use Humbrol "desert sand" as a flesh base, then once it's dried (at least 3 or 4 days) apply a mix of Burnt Umber, Raw Sienna and Yellow Ochre artist oils in a raw state to the skin areas, and wipe off with a dry brush. This should leave the colour (a reddy-brown) in the creases. (eye sockets, between the fingers etc) Before this has fully dried, apply a paler mix (almost off-white) to the bridge of the nose, top of the cheeks, forehead and the tip of the chin, and blend - at this stage, you shouldn't need any turps; the paint should be undiluted - this way it blends without completely disolving the basecoat. Once this has dried to your satisfaction, dot in the eyes with off white, (use the same for the teeth if they're showing) and the pupils with a dark dark blue or brown, then use a pinkish brown for the lips, and tongue. Finally, use a darker wash for the entire hair area in the chosen colour, then a lighter undiluted shade lightly brushed on for the hair highlights.
Good advice, but dependant on several factors:
1. If using tamiya figures, there isn't sufficiant detail for this all to work.
2. Best used on really well cast resin/metal figures.
3. Only try this if you have good eyesight.
4. Only try this if you've used oil paints before; ie try them on card or thick paper - get used to their properties - diluted and undiluted - before using them on the figures.
5. Only use this technique if you want your figures to look like Francois Verlinden's
I personally use acrylic - desert sand with a little white mixed in sprayed on as a primer, then a muddy reddy brown as a wash, then picking out the details (eyes, teeth, lips etc) with neat acrylic - Vallejo - and a tiny brush.
BUT don't give up. We are all human and capable of learning and improving. Soon we'll all be marvelling at your pictures of your figures!
All the best
Richard
fireontheway
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: May 17, 2006
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 368 posts
Joined: May 17, 2006
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 368 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 11:40 PM UTC
I believe the set that I am now using is from Andrea. It is specifically for painting faces. It is an acrylic set. I have just done 2 faces with a 3rd a WIP, and I have to say it is much easier than using oils. The instructions are a little hazy but I understand there is a CD of "how to" so I am trying to get a copy of it. As stated earlier it is very important to have quality sculpted faces, they help the painting process. I have been down your same path with this topic, and it is very frustrating to have a very well done vehicle or scene only to have a less than well done figure with it.
fanai
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 10, 2005
KitMaker: 2,654 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Joined: April 10, 2005
KitMaker: 2,654 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 12:08 AM UTC
Rovik -Don't give up and secondly don't paint a face like a tank - faces are very unique over 5 billion and none the same - so look at the man next door mowing the lawn the guy in the next office cubical that is the colouring you are trying to capture -squint your eyes and stop making your self 'paint' a face but paint the parts that show in the light then do the darkest areas very lightly and "gently blend" it will ome easier -slowly at first but when you do that 'first' lifelike face you will see all the variety and enjoy it even more and like me give up the tank and paint the 5 billion faces out there
Ian
(I am up to about 10000)
Ian
(I am up to about 10000)
steelskin
Luzon, Philippines
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 08:29 PM UTC
thank you guys for the tips and encouragement!
richard,
LOL! well, the figure i was describing actually was a tamiya figure (came with the char b1-bis). i’m doing some dragon figures right now and am already dreading doing the faces. i would love to get some nice resin figs but no one seems to sell them here and previous nightmare experiences with importing items into my country means that is not an option either. i think i’ll try verlindern’s method on a few leftover fallschirmjagers. but i’ll try your method on the vietnam LRRPs i’m doing.
timothy,
thanks for the suggestion on the andrea paints but again, i’m faced with the problem of the limited choices available in my country. it’s hard enough to get anything other than tamiya or gunze sangyo paints let alone specialized paint like andrea.
ian,
10,000? talk about prolific! i don’t think i’ll ever give up tanks but i am equally interested in doing figures. i look at each figure as a separate project in its own right and not just as supporting cast for my afvs. i hope to devote equal time to both. so i guess you could say that the right “mindset” is there, it’s just that the skills are a bit slow in coming…perhaps by the time i get to my 9,999th figure?
richard,
LOL! well, the figure i was describing actually was a tamiya figure (came with the char b1-bis). i’m doing some dragon figures right now and am already dreading doing the faces. i would love to get some nice resin figs but no one seems to sell them here and previous nightmare experiences with importing items into my country means that is not an option either. i think i’ll try verlindern’s method on a few leftover fallschirmjagers. but i’ll try your method on the vietnam LRRPs i’m doing.
timothy,
thanks for the suggestion on the andrea paints but again, i’m faced with the problem of the limited choices available in my country. it’s hard enough to get anything other than tamiya or gunze sangyo paints let alone specialized paint like andrea.
ian,
10,000? talk about prolific! i don’t think i’ll ever give up tanks but i am equally interested in doing figures. i look at each figure as a separate project in its own right and not just as supporting cast for my afvs. i hope to devote equal time to both. so i guess you could say that the right “mindset” is there, it’s just that the skills are a bit slow in coming…perhaps by the time i get to my 9,999th figure?
fanai
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 10, 2005
KitMaker: 2,654 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Joined: April 10, 2005
KitMaker: 2,654 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:07 PM UTC
Rovik do you have access to Games worshop paints
they do a great range of coloour for flesh and a great brown and flesh ink
I think you can get them in the Phillipines
I use a karki base then wash with a brown or flesh was then while a little wet touch the highlight with a bone colour then a touch of flat white -this may give you a nice -suntaned/weathered face- have a look at historicus forma on this site - great ideas and lots of people who live around you with suggestions
Ian
they do a great range of coloour for flesh and a great brown and flesh ink
I think you can get them in the Phillipines
I use a karki base then wash with a brown or flesh was then while a little wet touch the highlight with a bone colour then a touch of flat white -this may give you a nice -suntaned/weathered face- have a look at historicus forma on this site - great ideas and lots of people who live around you with suggestions
Ian
wedgetail
Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 93 posts
Armorama: 90 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 93 posts
Armorama: 90 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 12:47 PM UTC
Rovik
The method I use (mostly on DML figures) is as follows:
Firstly prime the whole figure (I use Tamiya fine spray primer)
Second coat - spray the whole figure in a fairly thin coat of Tamiya Nato Brown
Third - paint the flesh areas with a base coat of Vallejo Medium Flesh. Let this dry overnight.
Fourth - paint the face with a wash of W&N Burnt Sienna, making sure that the paint gets well into all the creases. Let this dry overnight.
Fifth - mix up a light flesh colour from W&N White, Burnt Sienna (just a touch), and Gold Ochre and brush this lightly onto the high points (forehead, cheek bones, nose, chin, backs of hands and figures). Blend this into the creases
Last - use Vallejo White for the eyes, with the eyeballs done with a blue or brown fine tipped felt pen.
Have fun
Rob
The method I use (mostly on DML figures) is as follows:
Firstly prime the whole figure (I use Tamiya fine spray primer)
Second coat - spray the whole figure in a fairly thin coat of Tamiya Nato Brown
Third - paint the flesh areas with a base coat of Vallejo Medium Flesh. Let this dry overnight.
Fourth - paint the face with a wash of W&N Burnt Sienna, making sure that the paint gets well into all the creases. Let this dry overnight.
Fifth - mix up a light flesh colour from W&N White, Burnt Sienna (just a touch), and Gold Ochre and brush this lightly onto the high points (forehead, cheek bones, nose, chin, backs of hands and figures). Blend this into the creases
Last - use Vallejo White for the eyes, with the eyeballs done with a blue or brown fine tipped felt pen.
Have fun
Rob
f1matt
Manitoba, Canada
Joined: August 13, 2006
KitMaker: 1,021 posts
Armorama: 805 posts
Joined: August 13, 2006
KitMaker: 1,021 posts
Armorama: 805 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 03:33 PM UTC
I feel your pain Rovik. I am at the face painting stage myself right now. I have painted the face on one of my figures about three times now and I still aint satisfied. Guess I will just keep going till I get it right. Or right enough.
Tarok
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 11:30 PM UTC
Hi there,
I would suggest that you post your questions on HF's painting forum, particularly since the authors of those articles mostly visit there and may have missed this thread.
Hope to see you there - remember your login for HF is the same as that for Armorama.
Rudi
I would suggest that you post your questions on HF's painting forum, particularly since the authors of those articles mostly visit there and may have missed this thread.
Hope to see you there - remember your login for HF is the same as that for Armorama.
Rudi
Posted: Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 11:50 PM UTC
I use Games Workshop paints for my figures. I find that Elf Flesh is great for pale or cold skin, whilst Dwarf Flesh is a good base for darker, tanned skin. I mix the two to get a 'ordinairy' skin colour. By always mixing the flesh colour from two or three base colours, you also avoid all figures having exactly the same complexion..
Cheers
Henk
Cheers
Henk
Posted: Friday, October 05, 2007 - 12:57 AM UTC
Rovik,
If you are using Winsor Newton oils you shouldn't be thinning them unless you are applying a wash coat. Use the oil paint straight out of the tube and put a small amount on your brush. With a good brush (red sable) spread the oil paint completely over the surface until there are no more brush marks. You may need to do this a couple times for complete coverage.
I usually put a dab of oil paint on a small piece of card stock so the excess oil is absorbed before I start painting.
Oils are excellent paints to use but they require a somewhat different approach that acrylics or enamels to obtain the desired results.
Cheers,
Charles
If you are using Winsor Newton oils you shouldn't be thinning them unless you are applying a wash coat. Use the oil paint straight out of the tube and put a small amount on your brush. With a good brush (red sable) spread the oil paint completely over the surface until there are no more brush marks. You may need to do this a couple times for complete coverage.
I usually put a dab of oil paint on a small piece of card stock so the excess oil is absorbed before I start painting.
Oils are excellent paints to use but they require a somewhat different approach that acrylics or enamels to obtain the desired results.
Cheers,
Charles
kevinb120
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 09, 2006
KitMaker: 1,349 posts
Armorama: 1,267 posts
Joined: May 09, 2006
KitMaker: 1,349 posts
Armorama: 1,267 posts
Posted: Friday, October 05, 2007 - 02:52 AM UTC
Great tips guys, I avoid figures like the plague, I may have to try a few
orange_3D
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: July 28, 2005
KitMaker: 602 posts
Armorama: 469 posts
Joined: July 28, 2005
KitMaker: 602 posts
Armorama: 469 posts
Posted: Friday, October 05, 2007 - 04:08 AM UTC
rovik, might be useful to post some pics of your results so that the guys can give you better tips to solve your problem...
there are a few basic general rules to get good results:
1.) make sure you are using a good brush - especially in small scales like 1/35 - a good brush that keeps a fine point is a must (use a different brush for drybrushing and applying a pin wash)
2.) you need to be able to control the consistency of the paint - that means getting familiar with different paint thinner ratios and knowing what you can achieve with these. What I've found when working with oils in general is that certain colors tend to be very transparent when thinned (cobalt blue, lemon yellow, etc.) while others have more covering power even if thinned a lot (black, burnt umber, etc.) so practice on getting the right consistency,
a good way that works for me is to have a lump of oil straight from the tube on the palette, soak away excess oil (with a tissue or paper) as this makes the paint more transparent,
dip your brush into some turps and mix the loaded brush at the edge of the lump of oil paint, from their you can start applying paint to the figure, if its too thin, mix a bit more of the paint from the lump and touch the brush onto a clean tissue before applying to the model, if it's too dry, dip the brush into the turp and mix this to your lump of paint
if you are using the verlinden method:
Base coat with acrylic sprayed on with an airbrush (on top of your primer coat). Base coat with a slightly darker shade of your flesh midtone. Dont even try to use oil paint as the base coat on top of gray, I feel the oil paint is too transparent to cover the gray and takes forever to dry before you can proceed to the next step.
Dry brush (highlites) oil paint that hasnt been thinned with turps and make sure you remove the excess oil from the paint, and dont use a brush that has been dipped in turps.
For the wash (shades and shadows) part -dont thin the paint too much, make sure you can see the result when you apply the wash, use a very fine brush to be able to control where the wash goes (usually the shadow areas)
3.) you need to know when to apply the paint - this is important, applying too soon and you risk messing up the paint underneath and everything gets blended into a muddy mess, applying too late (when the paint is dry) and you cant blend it - this is not so bad - if you choose the right colors, you can get away with little blending
4.) you need to choose the right colors (i guess this is self explanatory)
some other tips, when practicing painting - dont worry too much about blending the paint at first, just concentrate on getting the right amount of the right color paint at the right spot
less is more - always apply the paint as thinly as possible, waiting for the previous coat to dry before applying another coat on top (with oils, dry doesnt mean 'set' - and applying wet on dry still allows you some ability to blend)
there are a few basic general rules to get good results:
1.) make sure you are using a good brush - especially in small scales like 1/35 - a good brush that keeps a fine point is a must (use a different brush for drybrushing and applying a pin wash)
2.) you need to be able to control the consistency of the paint - that means getting familiar with different paint thinner ratios and knowing what you can achieve with these. What I've found when working with oils in general is that certain colors tend to be very transparent when thinned (cobalt blue, lemon yellow, etc.) while others have more covering power even if thinned a lot (black, burnt umber, etc.) so practice on getting the right consistency,
a good way that works for me is to have a lump of oil straight from the tube on the palette, soak away excess oil (with a tissue or paper) as this makes the paint more transparent,
dip your brush into some turps and mix the loaded brush at the edge of the lump of oil paint, from their you can start applying paint to the figure, if its too thin, mix a bit more of the paint from the lump and touch the brush onto a clean tissue before applying to the model, if it's too dry, dip the brush into the turp and mix this to your lump of paint
if you are using the verlinden method:
Base coat with acrylic sprayed on with an airbrush (on top of your primer coat). Base coat with a slightly darker shade of your flesh midtone. Dont even try to use oil paint as the base coat on top of gray, I feel the oil paint is too transparent to cover the gray and takes forever to dry before you can proceed to the next step.
Dry brush (highlites) oil paint that hasnt been thinned with turps and make sure you remove the excess oil from the paint, and dont use a brush that has been dipped in turps.
For the wash (shades and shadows) part -dont thin the paint too much, make sure you can see the result when you apply the wash, use a very fine brush to be able to control where the wash goes (usually the shadow areas)
3.) you need to know when to apply the paint - this is important, applying too soon and you risk messing up the paint underneath and everything gets blended into a muddy mess, applying too late (when the paint is dry) and you cant blend it - this is not so bad - if you choose the right colors, you can get away with little blending
4.) you need to choose the right colors (i guess this is self explanatory)
some other tips, when practicing painting - dont worry too much about blending the paint at first, just concentrate on getting the right amount of the right color paint at the right spot
less is more - always apply the paint as thinly as possible, waiting for the previous coat to dry before applying another coat on top (with oils, dry doesnt mean 'set' - and applying wet on dry still allows you some ability to blend)