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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: WWII Soviet Armor
For discussions related to WW2 era Soviet armor.
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VolkerS
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: June 18, 2007
KitMaker: 120 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 10:07 PM UTC
Hi,

first I beg your pardon for me beeing an absolute sherman-no-knower. I want to build the DML M4A2 (76) as a lend 'n lease tank used by soviet army. (hence this forum) And if possible without adding aftermarket stuff!
So, my refs show, that the kit provided markings don't fit to what's in the box. #154 seems to have had other tracks (the chevron style) and #216 didn't show a muzzle break. Other pics I've got at hand show M4 with the chevron style tracks and muzzle break (the marvelous pic of #936 in vienna), other ,the kit provided tracks, but no muzzle break or added side armour.
Is there any link or ref, that shows a M4, that can be build from that kit without AM-tracks or barrel?

Thx

Volker
wanagun
#145
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 22, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 12:50 AM UTC
read some place else, I think a review by Cookie, that the barrel is all wrong. I belive the kit has a step in it and the real barrel did not. Might have to replace the barrel anyway. I am also getting ready to start one of these. I have noticed some of the pics show welded on extra armor on the side which is not in the kit as well. IF I find anything out I will let you know.
toadman1
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TOADMAN'S TANK PICTURES
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California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 06:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have noticed some of the pics show welded on extra armor on the side which is not in the kit as well. IF I find anything out I will let you know.


As built, M4A2(76)'s didn't have hull applique armor as they were a wet stowage tank.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
wanagun
#145
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 06:57 AM UTC
Actual it was the Acdemy that I was reading the review on not the DML one.
wanagun
#145
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 22, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 07:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I have noticed some of the pics show welded on extra armor on the side which is not in the kit as well. IF I find anything out I will let you know.


As built, M4A2(76)'s didn't have hull applique armor as they were a wet stowage tank.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures


The pic I was looking at is on page 32 of Concords Armor Battles on the Eastern Front 2. It is not a M4A2 as it has a differnt turret on it. I thought all the russians got were M4A2 but this pics shows something else. What versions did the russians get?
toadman1
Vendor
TOADMAN'S TANK PICTURES
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California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 07:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I have noticed some of the pics show welded on extra armor on the side which is not in the kit as well. IF I find anything out I will let you know.


As built, M4A2(76)'s didn't have hull applique armor as they were a wet stowage tank.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures


The pic I was looking at is on page 32 of Concords Armor Battles on the Eastern Front 2. It is not a M4A2 as it has a differnt turret on it. I thought all the russians got were M4A2 but this pics shows something else. What versions did the russians get?


They also received M4A2(75)'s. That's probably what you saw.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
VolkerS
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: June 18, 2007
KitMaker: 120 posts
Armorama: 112 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 09:03 AM UTC
Hi guys,

so, now the dust begins to settle a bit. The kit seems to represent a M4A2 (76) with T49 tracks and later version of the main gun (M1A2) with muzzle break. Right? So I'm looking for pics of this combination in soviet service. Unfortunatly most pics I've got at hand show T54 tracks and muzzle break or T49 track and no muzzle break . Has this combination been so rare?

Volker
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 09:18 AM UTC
Not sure if these are of any help but try these sites:

http://www.o5m6.de/ForeignArmour.html

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=157&Itemid=78&lang=ru

Cheers

jjumbo
wanagun
#145
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 22, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 12:13 PM UTC
They do look like the turret on the TAmiya 75 mm one. Thanks I never knew the Russian got these also.

As the the point of this post. I have not found a pic yet but I still have some more Russian books to go thru yesterday. Not sure I can make out track detial but I will look for the barrel item.
chefchris
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 06, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 12:57 PM UTC
Scott,
The Russians received alot of the M4A2/76 s. I forget which Ground Power issue it is but I have it and it has @20 pix of them in service.
They sported a variety of track and muzzle combos and were usually beaten to &^%t and carried 2 200 l fuel drums and an unditching beam at times. One pix some s a tank with some inverted(upside down) track runs.

I am trying to remember if its the 194 sep tank. that has them in Budapest -they sported large white turret nos.
901, 908, 910, 911, 904, 907 .
You'd have some leway in regard to accuracy I guess.....

Chris
VolkerS
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: June 18, 2007
KitMaker: 120 posts
Armorama: 112 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 08:03 PM UTC
Thanks for the links. I knew them and unfortunatly both didn't provide a pic of the variant I'm looking for. Nevertheless O.Missing's helped me very much in declaring this variant. Just to prove the puzzling situation, the drawing of #936 at 'the russian battlefield' shows the gun without muzzle break, whereas the pic on the same side clearly shows it with!

Thx again (and still searching)

Volker
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 08:31 PM UTC
Gun problem, from memory the kit has a collar for the end of the muzzle as an alternate to the Muzzle break. I don't have access to mine at present but I may be confusing it with the M4A3 they did. It should have a plastic and metal gun barrel.
Most USSR variants I have seen had T49 tracks as supplied but I have seen them with T54 steel chevron. I have seen pics with Collared gun and Muzzle breaks. Ground Power No 97 June 02 has some great pics of Soviet M4A2 76. Turret 154 has a muzzle break but T54 tracks as does 358. 936 does not show the muzzle break but the vehicle behind it has none but has T49 tracks. All the others show collared muzzles (thread protector caps like a small collar). I'm sure you could find a trade for the t54 tracks or use Aftermarket ones.

The Russians also used the earlier 75mm variants of the M4A2 with welded & cast hoods and also the late 47 deg dry hull (with and without applique).


Cheers
Al
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / Espaņa
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:47 PM UTC
Volker, thanks for starting this thread - it gave me the perfect excuse to work on a Review i've been meaning to post for a while now

The subject is definitely the M4a2(76) with VVSS suspension. If anyone wants to go into the nooks and crannies of this vehicle in considerable detail, take a look at this:

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/2753
VolkerS
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: June 18, 2007
KitMaker: 120 posts
Armorama: 112 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 02:38 AM UTC
Hi Jim,

well if any other review etc. in stock, I'll most likely serve you with other threads, too .
Thanks for the link (and the review of course)

Volker
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