Hi there all you OIF-experts.

I´m planning a diorama of the Thunder run in 2003 for a local hobby show. It´s going to be one or two M1A1 Abrams and a couple if Humvees. Which versions of Humvees and Abrams would be correct?

The base for the vehichles will be Dragons new Abrams and Tamiyas M1025. Blast models and Eduard makes replacement doors, can they be used?
Any help with this (and/or photos) would very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Torbjörn

I think your dio would be more accurate for the run into Baghdad with less Humvees and more armor. But the Humvees would be basic M1025's and similar variants. The M1114 did'nt arrive until around OIF III. The units from the 1st ID that we replaced had very minimal add-on armor. They rode around Bayji without doors, and in open backs. From reading "Thunder Run" I'm not implying humvees were'nt there, I'm just saying it was an armored thrust.

Torbjörn,
You need to decide which Thunder Run you are trying to replicate. The first one was the mission to determine the strengths/weaknesseses of the defenses of Baghdad. TF1-64 conducted that mission on 5 April, 2003 and they used of armored vehicles (tanks, Brads, & M113s) . Second Brigade's launched another Thunder Run on 7 April, into the heart of Baghdad. This event used more varied vehicles, especially during the resupply of TFs 1-64 & 4-64, after they occupied the various Ministry buildings and Palaces in "downtown" Baghdad.

HTH
John

I´m not quite sure. My intention is to use Echelons decal sheet T35013 US ARMY´s 3rd INFANTRY DIVISION.

If you want to use both a Humvee and an Abrams, you probably would want to depict the second Thunder Run (as John noted). I think the Echelon decal sheet is appropriate for that particular operation, but I'll let more knowledgeable folks weigh in on that issue. Check out the Concord "Thunder Run" book for pictures from both operations that you can use as a guide.

hi

if you want a load of photos from 3ID send me a PM with your email address and i,ll send them to you.

many from thunder run
mark

Mark, PM sent.

Torbjörn

I'm not familiar with the Echelon decals so this may not work. I believe there were scout/recon elements with the second Thunder Run as well as possible an Anti-Armor section. If that is the case, a M1025-type will work for the scout/recon while the M1046 works for the anti-armor section. Tamiya's M1046 is ready made for an OIF-I TOW humvee, while Tamiya's M1025 will require Tamiya's Modern Accessories to upgrade some of the parts like the IFF panels, though you'll need ProArts SINCGARS to update the old radio provided in the kit. However the Tamiya M1025 kit has figures that will not work for the timeframe, while the M1046 included figures with IBA body armor vests.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

I believe they may of used M1097A2's in the troop/transport guise. You could get MIGs Humvee soft top set and add it to the Tamiya M1046(m1097A2's have winches) add CIP's and orange identification panels. There was no uparmoring at this stage! The book 'Thunder run' by David Zuchino is a good reference source as is concords 'Thunder run' book.

As several people have said it depends what Thunder run you wish to depict. Heres a few Humvees ive seen from pics though on the Baghdad highways during the invasion:
M1025
M1026(winch)
M998
M1037( I think thats correct, at the TOC which was bombed, ive got a pic of what looks like wrecked M1037s with shelters on the rear)
Of course theres also M1097A2's with the shelter fitted
M1114(ive seen a couple of these in pics, obviously no fancy extras!)
M1046

Thats just a small list of a few ive seen from pics, and as I said this is by no menas a list of those vehicles actually used in the Thunder run's themselves, just HMMWV's that appear to belong to the 3ID from my reference sources. All are easy to build using the Tamiya base kits and various AM updates and conversions if you're willing to folk out the money.

hi

this link might help with some of your questions.

torbjorn, i'll be sending the pics over the next few days. i think your intray may be full as well.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1160760168/

i think only MPs had m1114s and their were no armoured humvees with 3ID.
No TOWS, just 50 cals, 7.62 and grenade launchers on the humvees

mark

Thanks Mark. I´ve decided to make something from the first Thunder run. There will be two of Dragons new Abrams and one of Tamiyas M2 Bradley ODS and maybe a Humvee.
Since I´m not very good at US Army unit markings and don´t know which unit(s) participated in this event, does Echelon make a suitable sheet for this?.
I also remembered reading a thread about correcting Tamiyas Bradley to an OIF one. I can´t seem to find it.

Torbjörn

hi

if you got the file from me about thunder run 1 then that will show you some good markings

thunder run 1 was done by 2 Bde
TF 1-64
1-64 arm. A cpy ( 51)
1-64 arm. C cpy ( 53)
3-15 inf. C cpy ( 43)

1-64 arm B cpy was attached to 1-15 inf in the 3rd BDE

http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/m2a2-p1.htm

above is the link to sorting out the m2a2s

also they need to have the side baskets attached

http://www.eduard.cz/./products/card.php?id_product=5530&name=&catalogue_nb=&type=1&pgroup=2&scale=4&product_month=&product_year=&page_start=320

http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~kriegsketten/T35014.htm

http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~kriegsketten/T35015.htm

the 2 links above are for the right units in thunder run 1

i dont think humvees went the first time round, just armour. m1s,m2s,m113s

mark

Thanks again Mark, those pictures were really great. I think I have the basic diorama layout figured out now.
I won´t use a Humvee, I´ll use an extra Abrams instead.
Just a few more questions:

A Bradley fighting alongside three tanks from 3 ID 1-64 armor, how would it be marked, "bumpercodes", sidemarkings etc?

The crews in these vehicles, what were they wearing, Nomex overalls, desert 3 colour uniforms?

The reason that ask all this is that I will try to make a diorama that is as historically accurate as possible.

hi

Task Force 1-64 was made up of

1-64 arm A cpy side markings 51
1-64 arm C cpy side markings 53
3-15 inf C cpy side markings 43

1-64 arm A cpy
1 ptn 1-64 arm
2 ptn 1-64 arm
3 ptn 3-15 inf

3-15 inf C cpy
1 ptn 3-15 inf
2 ptn 3-15 inf
3 ptn 1-64 arm

C cpy 1-64 arm all tank cpy

ptns are marked with a v by there side markings. a v (inverted)on top is 1 ptn. A v to the side is 2 ptn and a v on the bottom is 3 ptn

as far as i know all units in 1-64 task force had 'TF 1-64' as there bumper number. But kept their parent unit side marking( as above). then on the opposite side cpy and ptn number ie C12 is C cpy 1 ptn no 2 tank. same for the bradleys. 4 vehicles in each ptn.

from all the evidence ive seen,heard and read the bradley crews (driver gunner and commanders) were mainly in 3 colour desert garb. but who is to say there wernt any one wearing mopp suits, woodland or nomex. after all that time in the same kit they would probably be wearing anything at hand. resupply was not very good at that point.

thunder run by robert burik
special ops vol 27 both these books by concord offer great references

hope that helps a bit.

mark

That made things a bit clearer. I think that I will try to get those books.
One more thing, the questions never ends , in my strash of non-built models I found Tamiyas old M577 Command Post, how much work has to be done to it before it can be used in a OIF diorama? I guess the markings on it also will follow the previos post.

hi

to be honest im not one hundred percent sure about the m577. ive built 2 so far. all ive done is leave off the wooden side bits and remove the track guards.
ive added the m113 side bins that i scratched from the thread by 'Desk jockey'
the side unit markings ive done from 2 bde 3ID and as far as i know (i may be wrong) m577s are only with the unit HQ so they will have 0 markings eg 1-64 arm '50'
3-15 inf 40

then it depends what role they are playing as to what communication mast set up they have. TOC, mortars, artillery the list is 'endless'

if you look at the pics i sent you im sure there will be some reference

so ive just covered the vehicles in baggage and left the mast set up for the time being. also 1 is done as a aid post medic track

im sure if you look on prime portal or some of the many other users sites that you will find out if there is any major changes needed.

mark

For the M577, it needs to be updated to an M577A2 or M577 A3 standards. The air intake grills , radiator cap cover, and exhaust are all different on an A2 or A3. Take a look at the newer Tamiya M113A2 Desert Version kit or an Academy M113A2 kit and you will see the differences. The same parts from these kits will work to update it as well. There are a few different smaller fittings on the roof and rear plate as well. Take a look at pics since these vary by vehicle. For an A3, in the driver's area, there is also a steering yoke as opposed to laterals as well. As Mark stated, the antenna setup is different for each version too.

Good luck. Sounds like a good dio idea.

I think I´ll pass on the M577 for this time. It will be three Abrams and one Bradley. I will try to post some pictures of this project if I can figure out how to do that.
Thanks a lot for all your help so far, I´m pretty sure that more questions will pop up in my head along the way.

Torbjörn