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Help recon Shermans #3
scoccia
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Milano, Italy
Joined: September 02, 2002
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Posted: Monday, March 31, 2003 - 09:04 PM UTC
Continued from "Help recon Shermans" #1 & #2

Hi there,
here I am with another recon problem. I know almost nothing on Shermans, so I hope someone can help me doing the job.
Thanks in advance for your time and kindness

Fifth one:




Sixth one:


avukich
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 01:52 AM UTC
The top one looks like an M4 (75) Dry to me while the bottom one with the dozer blade looks like an M4A4 (75) Dry.

They both are definately Dry stowage type Shermans because of the applique armor on the sides. That armor was applied to help protect the areas where ammo was stored inside in dry stowage vehicles due to its tendancy to catch fire if hit. The Wet stowage vehicles didn't need this added armor because their ammo wouldn't catch fire. They are also definately 75mm gunned tanks because the gun is most definately a 75mm.
ukgeoff
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: May 03, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:38 AM UTC
I belive the dozer Sherman is more likely an M4, rather than an M4A4. As I understand it all A4's had the three piece transmission housing, plus the wheel spacing looks to be wrong for the A4.
avukich
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:44 AM UTC
Geoff--Look at the front glacias plate. The top one is definately an M4 and the bottom one looks very different and to me looks like an M4A4. Isn't that type of direct vision hull an M4A4?
csch
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:44 AM UTC
If the first three photos are from the same tank they seems to be of a M4A3 Early (note the rear and the cupola).
The ones with the dozer blade seems an M4 early.
The one from the rear of the tank is an M4A1.
avukich
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:50 AM UTC
O.k. I should look more closely next time. The top is definately an early M4A3 (75) Dry early based on the rear end and the bottom one is an M4 (75) based on the rear end (I think that the shot from the rear is of the bulldozer tank csch).
shermanfreak
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 24, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 06:14 AM UTC
First one M4A3 and the second one M4 Dozer
csch
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

O.k. I should look more closely next time. The top is definately an early M4A3 (75) Dry early based on the rear end and the bottom one is an M4 (75) based on the rear end (I think that the shot from the rear is of the bulldozer tank csch).


The shot of the rear (fifth photo) definetly is of a M4A1, look at the air filters the acces door and the rear deck right down of the turret. I have no doubt.
kayelbe
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 03:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The shot of the rear (fifth photo) definetly is of a M4A1, look at the air filters the acces door and the rear deck right down of the turret. I have no doubt.



The fifth photo is the second photo of a three pic set labeled "6th one".

You are correct in pointing out the rear and air filters as a radial engine vice diesel...but it is still a welded-hull which would make it an M4 (A-nuthin') rather than an 'A1.

blaster76
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 04:28 PM UTC
"Scuse my igorance, when did the Italians use Shermans? I've seen them with M-24 Chaffees amd M-47 Pattons. What else (US Armor) have they used and when.

JUst trying to increase my knowledge base
scoccia
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 10:04 PM UTC
Hi Blaster,
we've got almost all types of Shermans served in the Italian Army after WWII. The first were the ones the British Army left here and later on they started to arrive, together with M3A1 Scout Cars and Halftracks from White, from the huge US Army depots in Germany. All in all we had something like a couple of thousand from 1945 to early 70s. I remember that I was a kid when they started to withdraw them from service and visiting my father at the Armoured Troops School in Caserta (he was in command of a battaillon of cadets) I was impressed by the quantity of Shermas they collected to be sold to other countries or destroyed: over a 1000 in a big field!
I hope this is enough for your knowledge base, otherwise let me know. Anyway stay tuned because on the "Mezzi" section of my site [url]http://www.cavalleriaitaliana.it[url] I will soon post quite a bit of pics on the Shermans. For the time being on my site I've only got Italian AFVs like L3, L6 and M15/42.
Ciao
csch
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 02:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The shot of the rear (fifth photo) definetly is of a M4A1, look at the air filters the acces door and the rear deck right down of the turret. I have no doubt.



The fifth photo is the second photo of a three pic set labeled "6th one".

You are correct in pointing out the rear and air filters as a radial engine vice diesel...but it is still a welded-hull which would make it an M4 (A-nuthin') rather than an 'A1.




Ok kayelbe, you´re right. Checking my photographic references I found one early M4 with this rear configuration. Great observation the one of the welded hull in the rear.
csch
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 02:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Blaster,
we've got almost all types of Shermans served in the Italian Army after WWII. The first were the ones the British Army left here and later on they started to arrive, together with M3A1 Scout Cars and Halftracks from White, from the huge US Army depots in Germany. All in all we had something like a couple of thousand from 1945 to early 70s. I remember that I was a kid when they started to withdraw them from service and visiting my father at the Armoured Troops School in Caserta (he was in command of a battaillon of cadets) I was impressed by the quantity of Shermas they collected to be sold to other countries or destroyed: over a 1000 in a big field!
I hope this is enough for your knowledge base, otherwise let me know. Anyway stay tuned because on the "Mezzi" section of my site [url]http://www.cavalleriaitaliana.it[url] I will soon post quite a bit of pics on the Shermans. For the time being on my site I've only got Italian AFVs like L3, L6 and M15/42.
Ciao



Hi scoccia. If you like the Sherman Tank I can send to your e-mail (they have copyright) a lot of colour profiles of diferent types of Shermans that served in many units during WW2. It´s a very nice material and very usefull at the moment to dicide painting, camo and markings. If you want them just tell me and I´ll send them.
scoccia
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Milano, Italy
Joined: September 02, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 02:20 AM UTC
Tks Csch!
you can send me email at this address: [email protected]
Thanks a lot again...
Ciao
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