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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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realistic sag of tracks
bankmannl
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 05:55 AM UTC
Hi guys,

I have a little problem.
I'm in the process of making an conversion of a old M-109 into a M-992 FAASV.
Now i have some problems with the realistic sag of the tracks, for the original ones from the Italeri kit are too stiff.
Since i don't have anything else i will have to use these.
Has anyone any suggestions how to create real sag ?
Perhaps use superglue to glue them on the upperside of the roadwheels ?

Gé Hovens

bison126
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Correze, France
Joined: June 10, 2004
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 06:02 AM UTC
Hi,
just try some bits of needle inserted in holes drilled in the hull sides. If they are thin enough and properly painted, you should not see them in the end.

Olivier
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 06:22 AM UTC
The pins in the side of the vehicle trick works well.

You can also try sewing the track to the top of the roadwheels by running the thread through the track guide horns and then down between the two road wheels at the correct stations. Tie and know them so that it's all hidden between the two road wheels and you won't see a thing.

Gluing to the top of the road wheels doesn't work well as the clue tends not to stick to the track and even if it does, it then sticks to the road wheel paint and then pulls the paint from the road wheel.

If you are planning to really muddy up the tracks, then I'd go with the pin method as they can be hidden in the mud on the track. If you are having pretty clean track, then the thread method works well, but is more of a pain to install. Yuo probably have to leave the joining of the track ends until after the track has been painted and sewn into place to get things to fit.

HTH

Paul
bankmannl
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 06:32 AM UTC
Hi Guys,

I already tried the tiedown method with thread, but because of the tension on the track my back idler wheel broke off.
I think i'll trie the pin method.
Thanks for your suggestions !!

Gé Hovens
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 06:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gluing to the top of the road wheels doesn't work well as the clue tends not to stick to the track and even if it does, it then sticks to the road wheel paint and then pulls the paint from the road wheel.



I have no problem gluing the kit tracks to the top of the roadwheels with superglue. First I remove two track links from each side. Then I join the two ends with staples. I add the tracks to the model after painting and weathering them. I put superglue on the top of each road wheel, except for the first and last road wheels. Then I hold it in place while it sets with popsicle sticks wedged between the track and hull. Once dry, I add a little more superglue onto the inside of each road wheel to give it some more strength. It comes out looking just fine with the proper sag as the first and last road wheels do not have the track touching them. It ends up looking like below.



Be sure to post some pics of your M992 when done. I would like to see it. I have plans to build one myself at some point.

Good luck.
pigsty
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United Kingdom
Joined: January 16, 2007
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Here's a less labor intensive solution. I suggest you do this before you paint them. Dip them in boiling water for 20-30 seconds, then form them around the suspension. Once they cool, they'll hold their shape. I've done it with Italeri tracks of all types and even the tracks for the Tamiya M3 half-track. It woorks like a charm.



Now that's a good one. If I hadn't already bought replacement tracks from AFV Club, I'd try it!

I had sag problems with my M107, whose tracks are equally stiff and unyielding. I found that CA simply wouldn't stick to the vinyl, so I used two-part epoxy and held everything in place with a Lego jig while it set. Even then one of the attachment points pinged off, so I resorted to gluing it back with CA. The epoxy had stuck fast to the track so the CA was actually bonding glue to glue, rather than track to wheel, and so far, it's still attached. Luckily it was between the inner and outer wheels, so it doesn't show. (She's on Track-Link if you want a look.)

seán
Henk
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 07, 2004
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:53 PM UTC
I have used both CA glue and PVA glue. CA glue is good, but has a tendency to break off if put under any sideway stress. PVA glue is a much underrated glue, which is very strong, dries clear, won't craze clear plastic (for windows and headlight lenses), and will glue anything to everything.
It has only one drawback, it needs a certain amount to work, which makes it useless for attaching small pieces in a conspicueos (sp) place. But, to glue tracks to roadwheels it's great. Concentrate the glue on the back of the wheel, and the portion n between the two halves. Just be sure to support the tracks in place, and leave to dry over night. Rock solid.

I did these tracks (Italeri M110 , tracks stiff enough to be banned from a WWF ring) with white glue.
They are still in place.



Cheers
Henk
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 07:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Guys,

I already tried the tiedown method with thread, but because of the tension on the track my back idler wheel broke off.
I think i'll trie the pin method.
Thanks for your suggestions !!

Gé Hovens


Be careful. If tying down the track pulled off the idler, then the pin method will as well unless you made a mistake while tying. The increased tension came from the track not having enough length to accomodate the sag. If this is the case, any method of producing the sag will increase tension on the idler. You might want to try the hot water method and try to pull the track longer at the same time to get the extra length you need.
t34-85
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California, United States
Joined: August 16, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 12:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

[I have no problem gluing the kit tracks to the top of the roadwheels with superglue.



It depends on the tracks. Some types are absolutely impossible to fix with superglue. Once I had a problem with a Heller Somua (didn't want to spend the money for aftermarket tracks, it was for a diorama and the tracks were mostly hidden by vegetation.) Tamiya and Testors liquid cements were no good either. In the end, the only thing that did the trick was Tenax.
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 01:35 PM UTC
Maybe its just me, but I have never had any tracks that superglue didn't hold.
t34-85
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California, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 03:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Tamiya and Testors liquid cements were no good either. In the end, the only thing that did the trick was Tenax.



Well of course not, those glues will not join vinyl tracks, but that's not what we are talking about here. We're talking about holding them down to the tops of the roadwheels, AFTER they are joined.



Well, someone suggested you could do that by supergluing the track onto the top of the wheels. My observation was that it not always works, since some types of vinyl tracks don't seem to respond to CA glue.
pigsty
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United Kingdom
Joined: January 16, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 09:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Guys,

I already tried the tiedown method with thread, but because of the tension on the track my back idler wheel broke off.
I think i'll trie the pin method.
Thanks for your suggestions !!

Gé Hovens


Be careful. If tying down the track pulled off the idler, then the pin method will as well unless you made a mistake while tying. The increased tension came from the track not having enough length to accomodate the sag. If this is the case, any method of producing the sag will increase tension on the idler. You might want to try the hot water method and try to pull the track longer at the same time to get the extra length you need.



Over-tight tracks were another problem I had to overcome on that M107. After the left rear road wheel pinged off twice, defeating even Araldite, I held it on with a pin. I drilled through the lower hull tub, through the point where the torsion bar enters the hull, through the inner wheel, and into the outer wheel but not through it, and fixed it all in place with slow-curing superglue. The pin's invisible behind the tracks and so far the whole sorry mess is holding up ...

The other side was fine because the rtack run was shorter by a whisker. So, if nothing else, Italeri got the staggered torsion bars right.

seán
bankmannl
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 31, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 10:46 PM UTC
Hi guys,

I've tried a combination of two--one side is tied down with thread and superglue and the other side just superglue since that track almost broke on one point.
Uptill now everything is still in place, so I hope that tonight I can go on using some Mig pigments to coverup all this work !!
I do hope to be able to post some pictures soon !!

Gé Hovens

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